Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[thettctransitfanatic]

As long as no delay doesnt mean some half assed solution like swan boats in the tunnel to union.

Upgrade the Union loop or don't do it at all.

Gotta hop on the swan boat to Union, maybe it will even connect to the ferry? The islands? That would solve the islands transportation problems!


!

 

[robmausser]

Instead of single-ended streetcars, order double-ended streetcars with the next order. Then use crossovers instead of loops.

This is actually a good idea.

It actually would also help the whole "Waterfront LRT" branding, because as it stands the Waterfront LRT is really just a streetcar line. But if you bought different, double ended dedicated streetcars for it, it would differentiate it from the rest of the streetcar system, and make it feel more like an "LRT" line, while still using streetcar gauge.

 

[Momo49]

This is actually a good idea.

It actually would also help the whole "Waterfront LRT" branding, because as it stands the Waterfront LRT is really just a streetcar line. But if you bought different, double ended dedicated streetcars for it, it would differentiate it from the rest of the streetcar system, and make it feel more like an "LRT" line, while still using streetcar gauge.

Double ended streetcars probably cant accommodate demand at union station without at least three or four stub tracks. Not to mention likely maintenance complications with ordering a totally new fleet for only one line

 

[robmausser]

Double ended streetcars probably cant accommodate demand at union station without at least three or four stub tracks. Not to mention likely maintenance complications with ordering a totally new fleet for only one line

TTC is looking at 60 new streetcar orders and they are hoping to snub Bombardier out of the tender process, so we will probably be getting a totally different fleet anyways.

Plus, you could very easily have Bombardier make double ended Flexity Outlooks, it was actually at the TTC's insistence that they be single ended.

 

[drum118]

TTC is looking at 60 new streetcar orders and they are hoping to snub Bombardier out of the tender process, so we will probably be getting a totally different fleet anyways.

Plus, you could very easily have Bombardier make double ended Flexity Outlooks, it was actually at the TTC's insistence that they be single ended.

The chair of TTC demanded single end so not to loose seats caused by duel end cars. He forced the commissioners to vote this way.

By having duel end cars, you could short turn cars faster, do away with squealing loops and replace them with stub tracks. It would free up land for better use. It would require having crossovers at various locations along the routes.

Can't put in stub tracks in the current loop and would require at leases 2-3 years shut down to rebuild it to handle 4 stub tracks..

 

[robmausser]

The chair of TTC demanded single end so not to loose seats caused by duel end cars. He forced the commissioners to vote this way.

By having duel end cars, you could short turn cars faster, do away with squealing loops and replace them with stub tracks. It would free up land for better use. It would require having crossovers at various locations along the routes.

Can't put in stub tracks in the current loop and would require at leases 2-3 years shut down to rebuild it to handle 4 stub tracks..

Thats fine. Doing things the right way takes time. Lets do things properly in Toronto. The whole "bandaid solution" because we dont want to shut down a service to do it right is absurd. So rather than 3 years of pain we inflict an eternity of it.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Thats fine. Doing things the right way takes time. Lets do things properly in Toronto. The whole "bandaid solution" because we dont want to shut down a service to do it right is absurd. So rather than 3 years of pain we inflict an eternity of it.

We don't need an entire eternity of these problems. Double ended vehicles can easily go around accidents and road closures, without having to go to a turning loop and going... all the way back round again

 

[Rainforest]

The chair of TTC demanded single end so not to loose seats caused by duel end cars. He forced the commissioners to vote this way.

By having duel end cars, you could short turn cars faster, do away with squealing loops and replace them with stub tracks. It would free up land for better use. It would require having crossovers at various locations along the routes.

Can't put in stub tracks in the current loop and would require at leases 2-3 years shut down to rebuild it to handle 4 stub tracks..

Would it be possible to leave the existing loop intact and use it for the Western service, plus build a new tunnel and a new station (with stub tracks) for dual-ended cars serving the new Waterfront East route only?

Or, would that option cost more than expanding the loop?

 

[robmausser]

Would it be possible to leave the existing loop intact and use it for the Western service, plus build a new tunnel and a new station (with stub tracks) for dual-ended cars serving the new Waterfront East route only?

Or, would that option cost more than expanding the loop?

Probably cost the same, and then create another transfer point for people who just want to continue on the Waterfront LRT.

Studies have shown that transfers can kill transit ridership by up to 25%. The general public REALLY hates transferring. When given the option between a 1 hour single ride vs a 30 minute ride with 3 transfers, they will chose the single ride 75% of the time.

 

[robmausser]

From 2007! Over 10 years ago.

https://stevemunro.ca/2007/01/26/a-bigger-loop-at-union-station/

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Probably cost the same, and then create another transfer point for people who just want to continue on the Waterfront LRT.

Studies have shown that transfers can kill transit ridership by up to 25%. The general public REALLY hates transferring. When given the option between a 1 hour single ride vs a 30 minute ride with 3 transfers, they will chose the single ride 75% of the time.

Even I think transferring three times along same route is redundant

 

[drum118]

The 2007 plan is close to the plan coming to the public, but it has a double crossover in the middle for both platforms and will have handrail all around the loop. This will allow cars to bypass cars at the platform to get in/out of a bay. Each bay will be longer than a Flexity

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

The 2007 plan is close to the plan coming to the public, but it has a double crossover in the middle for both platforms and will have handrail all around the loop. This will allow cars to bypass cars at the platform to get in/out of a bay. Each bay will be longer than a Flexity

This is the plan for Union, right? Or did they choose to build a swan boat in the tunnel...

 

[Bureaucromancer]

The 2007 plan is close to the plan coming to the public, but it has a double crossover in the middle for both platforms and will have handrail all around the loop. This will allow cars to bypass cars at the platform to get in/out of a bay. Each bay will be longer than a Flexity

So the structure is being extended further south than the 07 plan?

 

[44 North]

The 2007 plan is close to the plan coming to the public, but it has a double crossover in the middle for both platforms and will have handrail all around the loop. This will allow cars to bypass cars at the platform to get in/out of a bay. Each bay will be longer than a Flexity

Sorry, why bypass cars at the platform? Or is it that we'll be subdividing the westbound and eastbound platforms for the different services so it's actually *four* platforms - two on each side. As in: w/b Exhibition, w/b Spadina on one side; e/b Cherry, e/b Villiers on the other side. I guess this loop will be more dynamic and complex service-wise than I first thought.