News   Feb 26, 2024
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News   Feb 26, 2024
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News   Feb 26, 2024
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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 198 73.1%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 28 10.3%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 16 5.9%

  • Total voters
    271
I think as our transit system further expands into a network rather than intersecting lines, we should be thinking a bit more outside the box.
As you build a network, you want to create as many connections as possible. The Waterfront transit will connect to Line 3 (Ontario Line) and Lakeshore West at Exhibition, Line 3 (Ontario Line), Stouffville, and Lakeshore East at East Bayfront, Line 1 at Union and all the GO lines, and Line 2 at Broadview. Not connecting to Line 1 and the rest of the GO lines seems like a big miss in the creation of a network.
 
Why not just ban cars from Bay and Yonge, and run the streetcar north up one and south down the other, via King?

Where would you have cars queue to get on the Gardiner?

York Street is already jammed to the gills, if cars can't go south on Yonge or Bay, you're sending them down Jarvis? I'm as pro-transit and pro-pedestrian as anyone, but we're getting into fantasy land here.
 
As an east ender myself, How far east could this end up if we had endless money in a hypothetical fantasy world
 
Where would you have cars queue to get on the Gardiner?

York Street is already jammed to the gills, if cars can't go south on Yonge or Bay, you're sending them down Jarvis? I'm as pro-transit and pro-pedestrian as anyone, but we're getting into fantasy land here.

Wouldn't be a problem if we tore down the Gardiner :cool:
 
Wouldn't be a problem if we tore down the Gardiner :cool:
That section of it is very unlikely to be torn down and even if any section is, the number of cars will not change much - instead of queuing to get on an elevated highway they will be queuing to get on a non-elevated one. One of the main reasons for getting rid of current (elevated) Gardener is that it costs $$$$$ to maintain. In any case, Our Glorious Leader Mr Ford may take it over and in that case none of it will be torn down!
 
This full page ad in today's Star:

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The Executive Committee meeting today will be discussing the WELRT. Though I have not read every page, the CONSTRUCTABILITY ASSESSMENT SUMMARY is very interesting and worth looking at. https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2023/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-240131.pdf

They recommend the option of having the Union Station loop as a separate contract as it requires other more specialised skills and recommends that the link under the rail berm at Cherry Street be done as a separate stage at the end because it too is complicated and in an area where Metrolinx are already working.


"Recommended Phasing and Sequencing

The recommended project phasing (Scenario 3) separates the Union Station LRT Loop from the broader project, as a sub-project and separate contract. In addition, this Scenario provides for delivery of the Cherry Street North Connection as a separate contract at a later phase. Creating a separate sub-project and contract for the Cherry Street Connection helps address the many risks in this area. Delivering the Union Loop as a sub-project is recommended because of the unique and complex nature of the work proposed at Union Station. While the main WELRT along Queens Quay is mostly linear infrastructure, the Union Loop construction has more in common with buildings and vertical projects. The Union Loop is anticipated to have a longer construction duration than the rest of the WELRT project. However, by separating out the Union Station Loop from the rest of the project ,there is an opportunity to provide an interim East-West LRT service along Queens Quay using temporary power. While the future connection of the completed Union Loop to the WELRT network will cause some service disruptions, the advantages and opportunity to provide earlier service are significant. As advised by the TTC, the service level of the expedited portion will not run at full-capacity, and it shall be considered an interim service condition until construction at Union Station is completed. The delivery of sub-project 2, which encompasses Queens Quay East, Cherry St South, Commissioners St and Villiers Loop, still requires a high degree of coordination with adjacent projects. The Cherry Street North connection presents unique challenges and risks from the larger project. The conflict with the Gardiner Expressway /LSBE Reconfiguration work would necessitate either advancing the South Cherry Street Portal or including that work with the Gardiner/LSBE Reconfiguration. There are significant challenges and risks with either approach. To complete the Cherry St Portal, the Cherry Street Heritage Signal Tower will need to be relocated, new Mx signaling systems will need to be installed, as well as decommissioning of existing tower infrastructure. The proximity of the existing Distillery Loop to the Cherry St/Queens Quay platform means transit riders can connect to the WELRT easily, allowing them to benefit from the early East West WELRT service. Table 5 summarizes the advantages and disadvantages of the recommended phasing and sequencing. The recommended phasing and sequencing will enable a connection to the Union Loop and Villiers Loop in 2032. Cherry Street North and the connection at Distillery would follow in a subsequent project potentially completing in 2034. The timelines for each sub-project are listed on Figure 9, and Tables 3 and 4 below."
 
I think that what this boils down to is: Build the right of way on QQ first and then run streetcars from Spadina and Exhibition all the way east. Then add the Union connection later because Tunnels Hard! Then, 30 years after Transit Farce I mean First, add the Cherry connection because Underpasses Hard! Meantime I think they suggest connections are not a problem because it's only a three minute walk from Distillery Loop to the new right of way and that's considered a good transfer now. Only 19 years to figure this all out. OK start building.
 
I think that what this boils down to is: Build the right of way on QQ first and then run streetcars from Spadina and Exhibition all the way east. Then add the Union connection later because Tunnels Hard! Then, 30 years after Transit Farce I mean First, add the Cherry connection because Underpasses Hard! Meantime I think they suggest connections are not a problem because it's only a three minute walk from Distillery Loop to the new right of way and that's considered a good transfer now. Only 19 years to figure this all out. OK start building.
That is the plan that surface years ago. The idea was to get the east-west line up and running ASP and block off the tunnel until funds can be found for Union. This was before the change in plans to not build the Parliament loop, but to connect to Cherry loop. Then with the OL on the table, the line would go to the Portland with x for the loop.

The current plan is to loop in the Portland with the loop in the current plan location by 2031 with a T connect at QQ and Cherry for the extension to Cherry loop by 2035
 

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