Filip
Senior Member
That is so very dissapointing.
Very, very, very.
Very, very, very.
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Waterfront: Jarvis Slip Public Space Design Competition
- Thread starter smuncky
- Start date
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The design chosen wasn't my stated favorite, but all 3 are quite competent and I would have been pleased regardless who won the competition.
Come to think of it, no one involved went away empty-handed - for JRA, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery; for West 8 - everyone is still compelled to follow their design vocabulary, established by the Central Waterfront competetion.
AoD
Come to think of it, no one involved went away empty-handed - for JRA, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery; for West 8 - everyone is still compelled to follow their design vocabulary, established by the Central Waterfront competetion.
AoD
smuncky
Senior Member
+1
i don't think there's anything more that i could add.
i don't think there's anything more that i could add.
catcher_of_cats
Active Member
I am quite pleased that this design won since it was my favourite. I love the idea of the central Ontario, cottage look and the concept of the three beaches, each with a different theme. I think the the West 8 design was a little too much for the architecturally conservative minded folks on the judging panel.
lokyin
New Member
west8 was my fave but this winning cormier design is much better than jra so i'm happy still.
the beach facing redpath makes zero sense to me still, the juxtaposition doesn't work. is redpath staying forever?
the beach facing redpath makes zero sense to me still, the juxtaposition doesn't work. is redpath staying forever?
borgo100
Active Member
umm this is sad, I'd rather have those robotic arm things
spaced
Active Member
I wonder if the panel had the recent success of HTO in the back of their minds when choosing 'sugar beach'. If so, you can't necessarily blame them.
Fair Comment
New Member
Chris Hume has written an article saying he doesn't like the beach design. Imagine that, he is critical of something on the waterfront!
HTO park does seem to be a success and perhaps worth emulating. It also interesting to note that it was the City and not Waterfront Toronto that created HTO, which is why it probably exists in fact.
Hume's article questions whether a beach should be in such close proximity to a corporate headquarters and a heavy industrial plant (Redpath). The MOE might ask the same question about the latter.
HTO park does seem to be a success and perhaps worth emulating. It also interesting to note that it was the City and not Waterfront Toronto that created HTO, which is why it probably exists in fact.
Hume's article questions whether a beach should be in such close proximity to a corporate headquarters and a heavy industrial plant (Redpath). The MOE might ask the same question about the latter.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
From the Star, by Hume:
What's not so sweet about new Sugar Beach
Feb 02, 2008 04:30 AM
Christopher Hume
First the good news; Toronto will have a new beach at the foot of Jarvis St.
Now the bad news; Toronto will have a beach at the foot of Jarvis St.
Everyone loves a beach, of course, but what a strange place to put one – next to a corporate head office, just across the slip from the Redpath Sugar refinery. Imagine lying in the sand under a hot sun, unable to go into the water but watching ocean-going tankers unload 50 metres away.
No doubt it will be an interesting experience, if not exactly appealing.
But such was the decision reached yesterday by a jury on behalf of the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corp, now known as Waterfront Toronto. The body chose a submission from leading Montreal landscape architect Claude Cormier, called, for obvious reasons, Sugar Beach. The scheme also includes a paved plaza punctuated by trees, and a promenade that extends through the site.
"The jury agreed the design had a confidence, a purity and a playfulness that would make Sugar Beach a favourite destination," said panel chair, architect Siamak Hariri.
Despite Hariri's enthusiasm, one can't help but wonder if this isn't the wrong place for Cormier's proposal, precisely because of its playfulness. The HtO "urban beach" farther west on the water's edge makes sense because it occupies open space and is connected to the lake. Mostly, though, it's not industrial, or even corporate. By contrast, the Jarvis St. slip is emphatically both. Indeed, Redpath represents one of the last remaining industrial uses on the waterfront.
On the other hand, perhaps that's the idea, to create some sort of hyper-urban precinct, a beach-of-the-future where bathers splash about in the oil slick and dodge cargo ships. Sounds like fun, in a grim post-apocalyptic way.
And let's not forget that this is the same spot where TEDCO (Toronto Economic Development Corp.) will build a headquarters for Corus Entertainment. The building has been much criticized by the Waterfront Design Review Panel, which last month turned it down outright. Now it seems Waterfront Toronto will allow the project to proceed despite its acknowledged lack of architectural merit.
"Not every building will be the Sydney Opera House," said Waterfront Toronto vice-president of planning and design, Chris Glaisek. "Do they think this is a great building? No, they do not." Other than TEDCO's unabashedly self-serving CEO Jeff Steiner, who called the Corus building "gorgeous," no one will disagree with Glaisek.
Which is why the prospects for waterfront revitalization don't look as good today as they should. No, not every building will be a Sydney Opera House, but does that justify a Corus?
The whole point of revitalization was to establish a new model of growth in Toronto. It was to be sustainable, intelligent, urban and elegant. The intention was to bring the city into the 21st century and provide housing for 100,000 along with parks, businesses, culture and recreation. It was meant to prove that mixed-use development could do all these things and encompass design excellence.
But with the very first project on the waterfront, that has been brought into question.
There will be opportunities to make up for the damage Corus has done, but TEDCO's development-at-any-cost mentality has no place on the waterfront. The optics couldn't be worse; people expect the first project should set a standard for what will follow. Instead, it's more of the same.
Suppose that project had been the Sydney Opera House. The waterfront's success would have been assured, and with it the city's.
As it is, Sugar Beach will have to be pretty sweet to make such a bitter pill easier to swallow.
Christopher Hume can be reached at chume@thestar.ca
AoD
What's not so sweet about new Sugar Beach
Feb 02, 2008 04:30 AM
Christopher Hume
First the good news; Toronto will have a new beach at the foot of Jarvis St.
Now the bad news; Toronto will have a beach at the foot of Jarvis St.
Everyone loves a beach, of course, but what a strange place to put one – next to a corporate head office, just across the slip from the Redpath Sugar refinery. Imagine lying in the sand under a hot sun, unable to go into the water but watching ocean-going tankers unload 50 metres away.
No doubt it will be an interesting experience, if not exactly appealing.
But such was the decision reached yesterday by a jury on behalf of the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corp, now known as Waterfront Toronto. The body chose a submission from leading Montreal landscape architect Claude Cormier, called, for obvious reasons, Sugar Beach. The scheme also includes a paved plaza punctuated by trees, and a promenade that extends through the site.
"The jury agreed the design had a confidence, a purity and a playfulness that would make Sugar Beach a favourite destination," said panel chair, architect Siamak Hariri.
Despite Hariri's enthusiasm, one can't help but wonder if this isn't the wrong place for Cormier's proposal, precisely because of its playfulness. The HtO "urban beach" farther west on the water's edge makes sense because it occupies open space and is connected to the lake. Mostly, though, it's not industrial, or even corporate. By contrast, the Jarvis St. slip is emphatically both. Indeed, Redpath represents one of the last remaining industrial uses on the waterfront.
On the other hand, perhaps that's the idea, to create some sort of hyper-urban precinct, a beach-of-the-future where bathers splash about in the oil slick and dodge cargo ships. Sounds like fun, in a grim post-apocalyptic way.
And let's not forget that this is the same spot where TEDCO (Toronto Economic Development Corp.) will build a headquarters for Corus Entertainment. The building has been much criticized by the Waterfront Design Review Panel, which last month turned it down outright. Now it seems Waterfront Toronto will allow the project to proceed despite its acknowledged lack of architectural merit.
"Not every building will be the Sydney Opera House," said Waterfront Toronto vice-president of planning and design, Chris Glaisek. "Do they think this is a great building? No, they do not." Other than TEDCO's unabashedly self-serving CEO Jeff Steiner, who called the Corus building "gorgeous," no one will disagree with Glaisek.
Which is why the prospects for waterfront revitalization don't look as good today as they should. No, not every building will be a Sydney Opera House, but does that justify a Corus?
The whole point of revitalization was to establish a new model of growth in Toronto. It was to be sustainable, intelligent, urban and elegant. The intention was to bring the city into the 21st century and provide housing for 100,000 along with parks, businesses, culture and recreation. It was meant to prove that mixed-use development could do all these things and encompass design excellence.
But with the very first project on the waterfront, that has been brought into question.
There will be opportunities to make up for the damage Corus has done, but TEDCO's development-at-any-cost mentality has no place on the waterfront. The optics couldn't be worse; people expect the first project should set a standard for what will follow. Instead, it's more of the same.
Suppose that project had been the Sydney Opera House. The waterfront's success would have been assured, and with it the city's.
As it is, Sugar Beach will have to be pretty sweet to make such a bitter pill easier to swallow.
Christopher Hume can be reached at chume@thestar.ca
AoD
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
And the Globe, by Lisa Rochon:
ARCHITECTURE: TORONTO WATERFRONT
Cormier design wins Jarvis Slip competition
LISA ROCHON
February 2, 2008
Sugar Beach, an artificially sweetened park for a gritty part of Toronto's waterfront, has won the Jarvis Slip public-space design competition. The scheme by a team led by Claude Cormier Architectes Paysagistes Inc. of Montreal beat out a frightening design by the Dutch landscape firm, West 8, as well as an invigorating plan by Janet Rosenberg + Associates undermined by an excess of riches.
By selecting Cormier's design, the jury has embraced sameness over difference for the Toronto waterfront. With its umbrellas and stretch of sandy along the water's edge, Sugar Beach is largely a reiteration of the recently completed HtO Park located further west along the central waterfront. That scheme - a magical addition to Toronto's waterfront - was designed by Cormier, Janet Rosenberg and Toronto architect Siamak Hariri. At a recent public presentation, Cormier even pointed to a work by pointillist painter Georges Seurat as inspiration, all over again, for his latest design for Jarvis Slip.
Though public space along the waterfront is on a high these days, the process could benefit from an opening of the creative field to include other landscape thinkers outside of the usual catchment area. That said, there's nothing not to like about Cormier's design. There's the sand, the brightly coloured assortment of steel umbrellas, the grassy hillocks and heaps of granite previously used for the much beloved Cumberland/Village of Yorkville park. But here's what's to regret: the indifference to establishing a rhythm of difference along the waterfront, as distinct and unexpected as each of Toronto's neighbourhoods.
Cormier worked on the scheme with David Leinster of the urban-design firm the Planning Partnership and consultant Beth Kapusta, as well as New York lighting designer Leni Schwendinger. This Sugar Beach scheme acknowledged, to its credit, the fact of the cargo ships pulled up in the slip alongside the Redpath (Tate & Lyle) Sugar Refinery, and the need, simply stated, to allow the public to gaze out to the water. But, I wonder about why the design comes without the ambition of mesmerizing public art, the likes of which can be seen, for instance, in Chicago's Millennium Park. West 8 offered in its scheme a couple of overscaled robotic-powered arms, inspired as a truly kitschy idea by the Canadarm (now sold off to the Americans) and better suited to a David Cronenberg film. Rosenberg's Weather Front scheme attempted the exciting idea of a monumental, kinetic aluminum screen designed by American Ned Kahn, but it was positioned to block views to the water and flawed by the addition of inappropriate living-room chairs. All three schemes failed to truly engage innovative furniture design in their plans, surprising not only because this is, after all, a place to sit and wonder at the lake, but also because of the wealth of intelligent furniture designers, young and old, working these days in Toronto.
AoD
ARCHITECTURE: TORONTO WATERFRONT
Cormier design wins Jarvis Slip competition
LISA ROCHON
February 2, 2008
Sugar Beach, an artificially sweetened park for a gritty part of Toronto's waterfront, has won the Jarvis Slip public-space design competition. The scheme by a team led by Claude Cormier Architectes Paysagistes Inc. of Montreal beat out a frightening design by the Dutch landscape firm, West 8, as well as an invigorating plan by Janet Rosenberg + Associates undermined by an excess of riches.
By selecting Cormier's design, the jury has embraced sameness over difference for the Toronto waterfront. With its umbrellas and stretch of sandy along the water's edge, Sugar Beach is largely a reiteration of the recently completed HtO Park located further west along the central waterfront. That scheme - a magical addition to Toronto's waterfront - was designed by Cormier, Janet Rosenberg and Toronto architect Siamak Hariri. At a recent public presentation, Cormier even pointed to a work by pointillist painter Georges Seurat as inspiration, all over again, for his latest design for Jarvis Slip.
Though public space along the waterfront is on a high these days, the process could benefit from an opening of the creative field to include other landscape thinkers outside of the usual catchment area. That said, there's nothing not to like about Cormier's design. There's the sand, the brightly coloured assortment of steel umbrellas, the grassy hillocks and heaps of granite previously used for the much beloved Cumberland/Village of Yorkville park. But here's what's to regret: the indifference to establishing a rhythm of difference along the waterfront, as distinct and unexpected as each of Toronto's neighbourhoods.
Cormier worked on the scheme with David Leinster of the urban-design firm the Planning Partnership and consultant Beth Kapusta, as well as New York lighting designer Leni Schwendinger. This Sugar Beach scheme acknowledged, to its credit, the fact of the cargo ships pulled up in the slip alongside the Redpath (Tate & Lyle) Sugar Refinery, and the need, simply stated, to allow the public to gaze out to the water. But, I wonder about why the design comes without the ambition of mesmerizing public art, the likes of which can be seen, for instance, in Chicago's Millennium Park. West 8 offered in its scheme a couple of overscaled robotic-powered arms, inspired as a truly kitschy idea by the Canadarm (now sold off to the Americans) and better suited to a David Cronenberg film. Rosenberg's Weather Front scheme attempted the exciting idea of a monumental, kinetic aluminum screen designed by American Ned Kahn, but it was positioned to block views to the water and flawed by the addition of inappropriate living-room chairs. All three schemes failed to truly engage innovative furniture design in their plans, surprising not only because this is, after all, a place to sit and wonder at the lake, but also because of the wealth of intelligent furniture designers, young and old, working these days in Toronto.
AoD
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
re: Hume
Considering the rumours, it isn't like Redpath will likely remain industrial indefinitely.
That is pure BS - so if we have a Sydney Opera House on the Corus site, and right beside it we have "post-apocalyptic" Redpath - we can do nothing else on the waterfront and the its' success is assured? I don't think so.
Fair Comment:
That's something I thought about yesterday - by adopting the Sugar Beach scheme, the watefront basically added "beachfront" on top of the West 8 design vocabulary - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Add to that the HTO beach being a proven people drawer and it might not be such a bad thing to replicate the design at this end.
AoD
Considering the rumours, it isn't like Redpath will likely remain industrial indefinitely.
That is pure BS - so if we have a Sydney Opera House on the Corus site, and right beside it we have "post-apocalyptic" Redpath - we can do nothing else on the waterfront and the its' success is assured? I don't think so.
Fair Comment:
That's something I thought about yesterday - by adopting the Sugar Beach scheme, the watefront basically added "beachfront" on top of the West 8 design vocabulary - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Add to that the HTO beach being a proven people drawer and it might not be such a bad thing to replicate the design at this end.
AoD
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
From the Post:
Jarvis Slip to become 'Sugar Beach'
Posted: February 01, 2008, 6:24 PM by Rob Roberts
By Kelly Grant, National Post
A new urban beach is coming to downtown Toronto.
Waterfront Toronto announced today it has chosen a playful beach design to revivify the Jarvis slip, a one-acre parcel of waterfront property between the Redpath sugar refinery and a future office building for Corus Entertainment.
The winning design, Sugar Beach, weaves together a public plaza, a promenade and a new sand beach along a dock wall at the foot of Lower Jarvis Street.
The plan’s signature feature is several rows of candy-coloured beach umbrellas. However, immediately after lavishing praise on the winning designers from
Montreal-based Claude Cormier Architects, the chairman of the jury that selected Sugar Beach suggested the umbrellas be scrubbed from the design.
Siamak Hariri, of Hariri Pontarini Architects, said the panel of four felt “very strongly†that the umbrellas should be removed from the plan, in part because yellow beach umbrellas already dot HtO Park, the urban beach that opened last summer near Queens Quay and Spadina Avenue.
Mr. Cormier’s firm co-designed that park.
“We will certainly address some of those comments,†Mr. Cormier after the announcement. “Are they [the umbrellas] going or not? I don’t know yet.â€
The fate of the umbrellas will be decided in consultation with Waterfront Toronto and others as the $4-million project moves forward, he said.
Mayor David Miller, who praised the plan as a “terrific†new addition to the water’s edge, said he hopes the umbrellas stay.
“It’s not my decision, but I think they’re great,†he said.
“It’s nice to have a great public park that’s fun and a little bit whimsical.â€
Sugar Beach beat two other proposals: One from Toronto-based Janet Rosenberg + Associates, which featured a dramatic piece of public art, and another from West 8 + DTAH, which included a tree-lined promenade of quilted paving stones.
Mr. Cormier said he foresees visitors to Sugar Beach soaking up the serenity of the seaside and energy of the city in one location.
“It’s this idea of calm, but also the hype of a city. So there are two elements you’d think would be contradictory, but we have them together, juxtaposed.â€
The winning architects also foresee Toronto hosting concerts on barges on Lake Ontario, with the audience seated on the beach.
Construction of the project is slated to begin this fall.
The beach is expected to open the following year, around the same time the Corus building opens its doors.
AoD
Jarvis Slip to become 'Sugar Beach'
Posted: February 01, 2008, 6:24 PM by Rob Roberts
By Kelly Grant, National Post
A new urban beach is coming to downtown Toronto.
Waterfront Toronto announced today it has chosen a playful beach design to revivify the Jarvis slip, a one-acre parcel of waterfront property between the Redpath sugar refinery and a future office building for Corus Entertainment.
The winning design, Sugar Beach, weaves together a public plaza, a promenade and a new sand beach along a dock wall at the foot of Lower Jarvis Street.
The plan’s signature feature is several rows of candy-coloured beach umbrellas. However, immediately after lavishing praise on the winning designers from
Montreal-based Claude Cormier Architects, the chairman of the jury that selected Sugar Beach suggested the umbrellas be scrubbed from the design.
Siamak Hariri, of Hariri Pontarini Architects, said the panel of four felt “very strongly†that the umbrellas should be removed from the plan, in part because yellow beach umbrellas already dot HtO Park, the urban beach that opened last summer near Queens Quay and Spadina Avenue.
Mr. Cormier’s firm co-designed that park.
“We will certainly address some of those comments,†Mr. Cormier after the announcement. “Are they [the umbrellas] going or not? I don’t know yet.â€
The fate of the umbrellas will be decided in consultation with Waterfront Toronto and others as the $4-million project moves forward, he said.
Mayor David Miller, who praised the plan as a “terrific†new addition to the water’s edge, said he hopes the umbrellas stay.
“It’s not my decision, but I think they’re great,†he said.
“It’s nice to have a great public park that’s fun and a little bit whimsical.â€
Sugar Beach beat two other proposals: One from Toronto-based Janet Rosenberg + Associates, which featured a dramatic piece of public art, and another from West 8 + DTAH, which included a tree-lined promenade of quilted paving stones.
Mr. Cormier said he foresees visitors to Sugar Beach soaking up the serenity of the seaside and energy of the city in one location.
“It’s this idea of calm, but also the hype of a city. So there are two elements you’d think would be contradictory, but we have them together, juxtaposed.â€
The winning architects also foresee Toronto hosting concerts on barges on Lake Ontario, with the audience seated on the beach.
Construction of the project is slated to begin this fall.
The beach is expected to open the following year, around the same time the Corus building opens its doors.
AoD
JasonParis
Moderator
Some renderings from The Post...
adma
Superstar
But the mere notion of a "Sugar Beach" next door might be incentive for creative reuse rather than demolition...
Fad225
Active Member
blah.....! another HTO meets Cumberland on the lake.. come on!