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VIVA + York Region Transit

Sandpit said:
Hoping to see 24-hour service on routes 20 and 98/99 in 2025.
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Sure, but York Region should be be running at least a dozen 24 hour routes to have a viable network.

Two services in isolation has very limited utility.

I would argue, for a start, for 9 N-S services, Yonge, and 4 to the east and 4 to the west.

Along with 3 E-W services, Hwy 7, and 1 to the south and 1 to the north.

(plus Steeles via TTC)

That would do a lot to give people options, but every 24 hour route must be every 30M or better (at worst) at all times; and every 15M or better in rush hours, ideally more frequent than that.
 
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Northern Light said:
Sure, but York Region should be be running at least a dozen 24 hour routes to have a viable network.

Two services in isolation has very limited utility.

I would argue, for a start, for 9 N-S services, Yonge, and 4 to the east and 3 to the west.

Along with 3 E-W services, Hwy 7, and 1 to the south and 1 to the north.

(plus Steeles via TTC)

That would do a lot to give people options, but every 24 hour route must be every 30M or better (at worst) at all times; and every 15M or better in rush hours, ideally more frequent than that.
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This is a great way to encourage people to drive rather than use transit.
 
Bordercollie said:
This is a great way to encourage people to drive rather than use transit.
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york region is mainly suburbs and apart from the core routes youre living in a dream world if you think any form of increased bus service would significantly move single homeowners to not drive.
 
ShonTron said:
Brampton has questions for you.
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Brampton is 1 city... last time i heard york region is a conglomerate of 5 cities/towns ranging from dense city like yonge st to sparse like newmarket.
their geographical service area is many times larger than brampton yet their operating budget is the similar.

its like comparing operating trains in canada vs france...
 
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cplchanb said:
Brampton is 1 city... last time i heard york region is a conglomerate of 5 cities/towns ranging from dense city like yonge st to sparse like newmarket.
their geographical service area is many times larger than brampton yet their operating budget is the similar.

its like comparing operating trains in canada vs france...
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York region has a population of 1.1M vs Brampton at ~600,000;

York Region is promising funding to YRT that has no increases for inflation/population:

1723651180514.png


Brampton Transit has gross expenditures of 91M in 2024 more than 2.5x what York Region will spend, spread over less than 60% of the population.

***

Where exactly did you get the idea that YRT was getting a budget similar to BT? Its not even close.


Brampton Transit Budget: $151 per person

YRT Budget: $32 per person
 
cplchanb said:
Brampton is 1 city... last time i heard york region is a conglomerate of 5 cities/towns ranging from dense city like yonge st to sparse like newmarket.
their geographical service area is many times larger than brampton yet their operating budget is the similar.

its like comparing operating trains in canada vs france...
Click to expand...
I know for a fact, and that York Region does as well, that this is not true. The issue is service hours, plain and simple. York Region consistently has less service hours, and service density at large, relative to population and job density compared to its peers of similar or lower density. The outer 416 is, on the whole, less dense than Southern York Region.

The proof for this is that service is quite well 'allocated', or at least not in a worse manner than anywhere else. Efficiencies could be gained, and perhaps the VIVA services should be prioritized above all else, but you would have to cut service somewhere else to improve a route we want to focus on.

This is very much a political issue, and has little to do with how good York Region is at transit on the whole. This can be seen in the ridiculously high fares.
 
cplchanb said:
Brampton is 1 city... last time i heard york region is a conglomerate of 5 cities/towns ranging from dense city like yonge st to sparse like newmarket.
their geographical service area is many times larger than brampton yet their operating budget is the similar.

its like comparing operating trains in canada vs france...
Click to expand...

Plus their demographics are different. Brampton seems more like a working class suburb with a large international student population who don’t own cars and are willing to use transit.

The cities in York Region are more of upper middle class white collar job types who drive. I doubt you’re getting most of them out of their cars even with service increases.

Sorry to stereotype.
 
Adjei said:
Plus their demographics are different. Brampton seems more like a working class suburb with a large international student population who don’t own cars and are willing to use transit.

The cities in York Region are more of upper middle class white collar job types who drive. I doubt you’re getting most of them out of their cars even with service increases.

Sorry to stereotype.
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Pockets of York Region fit that description, but many parts do not.

Aurora is one thing, the nicest parts of old Richmond Hill or Thornhill (including some newer bits)......but those are partially offset by areas dense with condos (many rented), by many University Students attending UTSC or York, and others attending Seneca at York at Newnham or King, and smattering of older purpose-built rentals and affordable housing as well.

Lots of upper-middle income earners in Toronto commute by transit, and many York Region residents commute to downtown jobs by GO Train, particularly the Stouffville corridor and Barrie Corridor and also drive down to Finch Station and park.

I think plenty of them could be persuaded to switch if they were one bus route from their GO/TTC stop and that route ran every 10M or better; and if GO charged for parking!

That's not to suggest they will all go car free, but I could see many households dropping a second or third car and a small number going car-free, but more than today.
 
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There's definitely usage from commuters in York Region which is why frequencies become decent. But they need to invest in more mid and off peak frequency.
 
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