VIA Rail

[roger1818]

I'm assuming they're including bus operations in their analysis, but this quote still stood out to me considering the Toronto - Kitchener segment had something like eight round trips by GO train pre-pandemic whereas Toronto - Niagara had one.

Initially GO only had one Toronto - Niagara train, but looking at the current GO schedule they currently have 4 trains (plus all the busses). At one point I thought there were even more as they currently don't have an early morning train to Toronto.

I haven’t heard an update lately on the KW line. There has been work going on to improve the yard trackage and crossovers at Kitchener, to make operations there smoother....but nothing about completing the passing sidings east of there.While Ml has certainly upped peak service, until the line can handle all-day counter flow movements, it won’t be wide open for VIA.
I imagine that VIA’s intention is not so much competing with GO for Toronto-Kitchener riders as with adding the K-W-L population base to the reach of HFR for trips to places east of Toronto. That will sell seats on the core HFR line. Sure, people can use GO to get to VIA in Toronto, but a seamless journey always beats a transfer.
As for Niagara.....when ML is having to build its own trackage to use that route, don’t expect VIA to be welcomed onto CN. I do wonder if we will maybe see more focus on VIA service to Hamilton, for the same reason as KW.......a more seamless trip to points east.

I am not so sure. For end to end travel, VIA would be faster, since it has fewer stops (if they can get their frequency up). GO is better for those not wanting to end to end. VIA also goes further west than Kitchener, allowing other options not possible with GO. With an appropriately co-ordinated schedule, I could see the two of them working together in such a way that VIA can further reduce the number of stops between Kitchener and Toronto and having people transfer to GO instead.

On a distantly related note, does anyone know if VIA plans to use the new Mount Dennis Station?

 

[Bordercollie]

There is a plan for VIA to increase frequency's to London but most likely on the Dundas Sub not through Kitchener. So if you want to go direct to London, take VIA, if you want to go from Kitchener to London, GO Transit will your option once the service is running from Toronto to London through KW.

 

[roger1818]

There is a plan for VIA to increase frequency's to London but most likely on the Dundas Sub not through Kitchener. So if you want to go direct to London, take VIA, if you want to go from Kitchener to London, GO Transit will your option once the service is running from Toronto to London through KW.

That is not what the Summary of the 2020-2024 Corporate Plan is saying. From Section 3.6.2:

VIA Rail will explore expanding services in SWO, prioritizing the Toronto – Windsor segment with particular emphasis on the Toronto – Kitchener, Toronto – London markets. VIA Rail will limit its operations between Toronto – Niagara, which is already well served by Metrolinx. VIA Rail will also explore furthering its partnership with Metrolinx, mutually benefiting both.

 

[smallspy]

Initially GO only had one Toronto - Niagara train, but looking at the current GO schedule they currently have 4 trains (plus all the busses). At one point I thought there were even more as they currently don't have an early morning train to Toronto.

Those 4 round trips only operate on weekends. Prior to March, there was a single train in from Niagara Falls on weekday mornings and back out in the afternoon - and nothing more.

There is also the 12 bus however, which at one point last year was running half-hourly every day before being scaled back hourly plus expresses in the winter.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

Are there still viewliners to be delivered for Amtrak? With Biden being the next president, it looks like good news for Amtrak as per his previous record. Could VIA add themselves to a potential order for viewliners sleepers? Would that be a good choice?

It doesn't look like Siemens has a sleeper version of their Venture cars that is already available.

Would there be any other candidates that could quickly be brought up to production assuming that finding becomes available?

 

[micheal_can]

Are there still viewliners to be delivered for Amtrak? With Biden being the next president, it looks like good news for Amtrak as per his previous record. Could VIA add themselves to a potential order for viewliners sleepers? Would that be a good choice?

It doesn't look like Siemens has a sleeper version of their Venture cars that is already available.

Would there be any other candidates that could quickly be brought up to production assuming that finding becomes available?

What route would they be for?

 

[Bordercollie]

Well the equipment on the ocean and Canadian wont last forever.

And possibly give the option for overnight trains between Toronto and Montreal through Ottawa like they once did?

 

[ManyQuestions]

And possibly give the option for overnight trains between Toronto and Montreal through Ottawa like they once did?

While there have been occasions when I would have used such a train, it seems like it would be an extremely niche market wit sub 5h travel times the HFR route. But I would certainly have preferred it over taking a 6am flight to save on the cost of staying an extra night before a conference.

 

[ManyQuestions]

Those 4 round trips only operate on weekends. Prior to March, there was a single train in from Niagara Falls on weekday mornings and back out in the afternoon - and nothing more.

There is also the 12 bus however, which at one point last year was running half-hourly every day before being scaled back hourly plus expresses in the winter.

Dan

Do you know what equipment is used for those trips? Does go have anything other than the bombardier bilevels? It seems like their standard bilevel trains would provide far more capacity than is needed while also falling short on comfort and luggage storage.

 

[Bordercollie]

Do you know what equipment is used for those trips? Does go have anything other than the bombardier bilevels? It seems like their standard bilevel trains would provide far more capacity than is needed while also falling short on comfort and luggage storage.

I believe it was a Ren Trainset in each direction, 6 days a week. I think for a trip from Toronto to Montreal thru ottawa would be like 7 hours. So if it costs you $140 to travel from Toronto to Montreal overnight and you get there before 9am that's about the same as staying in the hotel. Mind you I dont know how much those tickets where at the time in Sleeper class, but that's about the going rate of a decent hotel in Ottawa or Montreal before covid.

 

[Darwinkgo]

I believe it was a Ren Trainset in each direction, 6 days a week. I think for a trip from Toronto to Montreal thru ottawa would be like 7 hours. So if it costs you $140 to travel from Toronto to Montreal overnight and you get there before 9am that's about the same as staying in the hotel. Mind you I dont know how much those tickets where at the time in Sleeper class, but that's about the going rate of a decent hotel in Ottawa or Montreal before covid.

I know my company's expense guidelines would never allow you to make this swap even if it saved money overall. I suspect that is fairly common.

 

[Bordercollie]

So you mean to say that your company rather pay $60.00 for a train ticket plus $140.00 for a hotel? I think that depends on the organization, and although it's meant for business users that's not to say that non business customer's would not take advantage of the service.

 

[micheal_can]

For all the lines, what are the average number of cars per train for each route?

 

[DSCToronto]

Well the equipment on the ocean and Canadian wont last forever.

And possibly give the option for overnight trains between Toronto and Montreal through Ottawa like they once did?

When I lived in Montreal (1972-2002) I often came to Toronto on the overnight train to attend meetings, if I remember right, the train left Montreal about 11pm and parked near Brockville for several hours and arrived in Toronto about 7am. Just in time for a good breakfast at the Royal York, a walk to a 9am meeting and home again on the 5pm train. It was definitely cheaper (or no more expensive) to do this with a sleeper than a flight and a hotel and far more reliable and I never had problems expensing it. I was very sorry when they stopped it.

 

[roger1818]

Are there still viewliners to be delivered for Amtrak? With Biden being the next president, it looks like good news for Amtrak as per his previous record. Could VIA add themselves to a potential order for viewliners sleepers? Would that be a good choice?

It doesn't look like Siemens has a sleeper version of their Venture cars that is already available.

Would there be any other candidates that could quickly be brought up to production assuming that finding becomes available?

Weren't Amtrak planning on also buying new Superliners? They would be arguably better for western services as the lower doors make for easier boarding at low platforms and the bi-level design would give a better view through the mountains.

They wouldn't work for eastern services though as they aren't compatible with Montreal's high platforms. If Siemens could make a sleeper version of their Venture cars, that would be easiest for VIA, as they could more easily mix and match with the corridor fleet.