VIA Rail

[crs1026]

Not sure of the quality or accuracy of the reporting of this website. But I came across an article on TrainsMagazine.com (Link attached) talking about the corporate business plan for VIA rail and the next 5 years.

The article is a not bad precis of a Business Plan document on VIA's web site, so it's based on straight goods. The source document is well written and presents a very candid view of VIA's situation. I would suggest the source document is the better one to work from.

- Via wants to increase its budget from 148 million to 300 million. I don't think I truly realized how shoestring of a budget that is to try and operate a rail network for a country as large as we are geographically. I understand that they get revenue from their ticket sales, ads, etc but I hope they see the increased government funding.

There are actually two components to this. One is covering VIA's costs. The other is firewalling VIA's cash flow from the ridiculously apathetic government processes, which refuse to process VIA's business plans in time for an annual fiscal cycle. When it takes two years to approve an annual Business Plan, you know the government couldn't care less about VIA. This is such an egregious bit of not attending to basic chores, I'm disgusted in our current government, even more than its foot dragging on HFR.

But yeah, in the big scheme this is a trivial amount of money to be nickel and diming over. We need better.

The Canadian won't see the third run return because of the actions of host rail networks. Is this a matter of saying to CN/CN; build us some more rail capacity here so we can make this work for both parties? or is Via a burden to their business models that they want off their networks as much as possible (hence HFR proposal)?

Via is very much a burden in CN's eyes. While CN is adding track capacity in Western Canada, they will probably never be in a surplus capacity situation, as it's all private capital so investment is carefully ratoned. The cost of adding further capacity to let VIA stay ahead of growth in freight traffic is huge. And why would the government pay for capacity that will inevitably be usurped by CN for its own needs? VIA would have to paddle faster just to stand still. I'm pleased to see VIA has taken the courageous route by plainly stating that the business model for the Canadian just isn't sustainable (Section 3.6.1)

I am pleased to see VIA bravely laying out just how constraining its relationship with CN and CP is. They are plainly arguing for government to change national transportation policy. I'm not optimistic, but it shows a lot more integrity than just cow-towing to the pols and bureaucrats.

One interesting new item in the document is the outline of the challenge of working with REM and with Metrolinx to retain terminal capacity in both Montreal and Toronto. I recently overheard a VIA guy remark that "Metrolinx treats VIA like a trespasser". To be a bit less partisan, Metrolinx has capacity issues both at Union and on its LSE/LSW lines. VIA can't take its use of these lines for granted, and it certainly seems logical that VIA ought to be assessed a share of the capital expension costs (just like with CN in Western Canada) if it proposes to expand its use of these resources.

- They would like an additional 110 million (I'm assuming to bring the total to ask to $410 million). Would this be for infrastructure deficits they have/projects (redoing the Budd cars) or is this more to cover their budget after the horrid year they have had because of Covid?

It's hard to tell exactly where the money is going, but there are some nuggets in the article.
- It sounds like the base operating envelope just wasn't enough in the first place, and COVID no doubt has strained that further
- VIA is projecting its non-manageable costs will grow faster than revenue or inflation (section 4.1)
- It sounds like VIA will have to pay for enhanced crossing protection requirements where they use CN lines, likely as a result of government regulation
- Stations are aging and need work

So no, this increase is not about additional equipment refurbishment. If anything, refurb is being cut back, in part because of recent mysterious discoveries about how bad the equipment condition may be.

- They talk about needing to look into the replacement of these units as part of the proposal for making these routes more viable. WIthout knowing anything about trainsets at all. Would a potential addition to the Charger order be viable if they can find the money or is rebuilding the better units coming off the Toronto - Montreal corridor the more likely option?

Only part of their existing fleet can be further life extended. The source article notes that the base Charger order is expected to arrive ahead of schedule, reducing the need to refurbish long-distance equipment that is "loaned" to the Corridor service to augment capacity.

VIA has options to acquire additional Chargers if it can find the justification. The highest priority growth opportunity pointed to (also a new nugget) is Toronto-Kitchener-London. I'm really happy to see that highlighted. It's possible that VIA could meet some of that by running its base Charger equipment through Toronto, but obviously, at some point they might need more trains, and their options enable that.

My typically verbose response!

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ Great response Paul!

 

[Mcurtis]

@crs1026 thank you for the response. Much appreciated

 

[E•MO•TION]

VIA Rail will explore expanding services in SWO, prioritizing the Toronto – Windsor segment with particular emphasis
on the Toronto – Kitchener, Toronto – London markets. VIA Rail will limit its operations between Toronto – Niagara,
which is already well served by Metrolinx.

I'm assuming they're including bus operations in their analysis, but this quote still stood out to me considering the Toronto - Kitchener segment had something like eight round trips by GO train pre-pandemic whereas Toronto - Niagara had one.

Regardless, as a Kitchener resident who prefers VIA over GO, this is welcome news. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out given the many constraints on the north mainline.

 

[crs1026]

I'm assuming they're including bus operations in their analysis, but this quote still stood out to me considering the Toronto - Kitchener segment had something like eight round trips by GO train pre-pandemic whereas Toronto - Niagara had one.

Regardless, as a Kitchener resident who prefers VIA over GO, this is welcome news. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out given the many constraints on the north mainline.

I haven’t heard an update lately on the KW line. There has been work going on to improve the yard trackage and crossovers at Kitchener, to make operations there smoother....but nothing about completing the passing sidings east of there.While Ml has certainly upped peak service, until the line can handle all-day counter flow movements, it won’t be wide open for VIA.
I imagine that VIA’s intention is not so much competing with GO for Toronto-Kitchener riders as with adding the K-W-L population base to the reach of HFR for trips to places east of Toronto. That will sell seats on the core HFR line. Sure, people can use GO to get to VIA in Toronto, but a seamless journey always beats a transfer.
As for Niagara.....when ML is having to build its own trackage to use that route, don’t expect VIA to be welcomed onto CN. I do wonder if we will maybe see more focus on VIA service to Hamilton, for the same reason as KW.......a more seamless trip to points east.

- Paul

 

[roger1818]

I'm assuming they're including bus operations in their analysis, but this quote still stood out to me considering the Toronto - Kitchener segment had something like eight round trips by GO train pre-pandemic whereas Toronto - Niagara had one.

Initially GO only had one Toronto - Niagara train, but looking at the current GO schedule they currently have 4 trains (plus all the busses). At one point I thought there were even more as they currently don't have an early morning train to Toronto.

I haven’t heard an update lately on the KW line. There has been work going on to improve the yard trackage and crossovers at Kitchener, to make operations there smoother....but nothing about completing the passing sidings east of there.While Ml has certainly upped peak service, until the line can handle all-day counter flow movements, it won’t be wide open for VIA.
I imagine that VIA’s intention is not so much competing with GO for Toronto-Kitchener riders as with adding the K-W-L population base to the reach of HFR for trips to places east of Toronto. That will sell seats on the core HFR line. Sure, people can use GO to get to VIA in Toronto, but a seamless journey always beats a transfer.
As for Niagara.....when ML is having to build its own trackage to use that route, don’t expect VIA to be welcomed onto CN. I do wonder if we will maybe see more focus on VIA service to Hamilton, for the same reason as KW.......a more seamless trip to points east.

I am not so sure. For end to end travel, VIA would be faster, since it has fewer stops (if they can get their frequency up). GO is better for those not wanting to end to end. VIA also goes further west than Kitchener, allowing other options not possible with GO. With an appropriately co-ordinated schedule, I could see the two of them working together in such a way that VIA can further reduce the number of stops between Kitchener and Toronto and having people transfer to GO instead.

On a distantly related note, does anyone know if VIA plans to use the new Mount Dennis Station?

 

[Bordercollie]

There is a plan for VIA to increase frequency's to London but most likely on the Dundas Sub not through Kitchener. So if you want to go direct to London, take VIA, if you want to go from Kitchener to London, GO Transit will your option once the service is running from Toronto to London through KW.

 

[roger1818]

There is a plan for VIA to increase frequency's to London but most likely on the Dundas Sub not through Kitchener. So if you want to go direct to London, take VIA, if you want to go from Kitchener to London, GO Transit will your option once the service is running from Toronto to London through KW.

That is not what the Summary of the 2020-2024 Corporate Plan is saying. From Section 3.6.2:

VIA Rail will explore expanding services in SWO, prioritizing the Toronto – Windsor segment with particular emphasis on the Toronto – Kitchener, Toronto – London markets. VIA Rail will limit its operations between Toronto – Niagara, which is already well served by Metrolinx. VIA Rail will also explore furthering its partnership with Metrolinx, mutually benefiting both.

 

[smallspy]

Initially GO only had one Toronto - Niagara train, but looking at the current GO schedule they currently have 4 trains (plus all the busses). At one point I thought there were even more as they currently don't have an early morning train to Toronto.

Those 4 round trips only operate on weekends. Prior to March, there was a single train in from Niagara Falls on weekday mornings and back out in the afternoon - and nothing more.

There is also the 12 bus however, which at one point last year was running half-hourly every day before being scaled back hourly plus expresses in the winter.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

Are there still viewliners to be delivered for Amtrak? With Biden being the next president, it looks like good news for Amtrak as per his previous record. Could VIA add themselves to a potential order for viewliners sleepers? Would that be a good choice?

It doesn't look like Siemens has a sleeper version of their Venture cars that is already available.

Would there be any other candidates that could quickly be brought up to production assuming that finding becomes available?

 

[micheal_can]

Are there still viewliners to be delivered for Amtrak? With Biden being the next president, it looks like good news for Amtrak as per his previous record. Could VIA add themselves to a potential order for viewliners sleepers? Would that be a good choice?

It doesn't look like Siemens has a sleeper version of their Venture cars that is already available.

Would there be any other candidates that could quickly be brought up to production assuming that finding becomes available?

What route would they be for?

 

[Bordercollie]

Well the equipment on the ocean and Canadian wont last forever.

And possibly give the option for overnight trains between Toronto and Montreal through Ottawa like they once did?

 

[ManyQuestions]

And possibly give the option for overnight trains between Toronto and Montreal through Ottawa like they once did?

While there have been occasions when I would have used such a train, it seems like it would be an extremely niche market wit sub 5h travel times the HFR route. But I would certainly have preferred it over taking a 6am flight to save on the cost of staying an extra night before a conference.

 

[ManyQuestions]

Those 4 round trips only operate on weekends. Prior to March, there was a single train in from Niagara Falls on weekday mornings and back out in the afternoon - and nothing more.

There is also the 12 bus however, which at one point last year was running half-hourly every day before being scaled back hourly plus expresses in the winter.

Dan

Do you know what equipment is used for those trips? Does go have anything other than the bombardier bilevels? It seems like their standard bilevel trains would provide far more capacity than is needed while also falling short on comfort and luggage storage.

 

[Bordercollie]

Do you know what equipment is used for those trips? Does go have anything other than the bombardier bilevels? It seems like their standard bilevel trains would provide far more capacity than is needed while also falling short on comfort and luggage storage.

I believe it was a Ren Trainset in each direction, 6 days a week. I think for a trip from Toronto to Montreal thru ottawa would be like 7 hours. So if it costs you $140 to travel from Toronto to Montreal overnight and you get there before 9am that's about the same as staying in the hotel. Mind you I dont know how much those tickets where at the time in Sleeper class, but that's about the going rate of a decent hotel in Ottawa or Montreal before covid.