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VIA Rail

^ Speaking of HFR

Fleet Replacement Program and High frequency Rail Proposal
"I have been at the head of VIA Rail for a year, and what a humbling and rewarding experience it has been," stated Cynthia Garneau. "Our impressive results both in ridership and revenues demonstrate that we continue to meet our passengers needs and expectations. However, we are always striving to do even better. As a result, we remain focused on the development of our transformative projects, such as the Corridor Fleet Replacement Program and High Frequency Rail (HFR) proposal. Our immediate challenge, however, is to convince Canadians that we are the safe way to travel as our response to the COVID-19 virus evolves."

HFR is VIA Rail's proposal to transform passenger rail service in Canada. It would allow new trains to operate on a dedicated track between major centers (Québec City-Montréal-Ottawa-Toronto). VIA Rail is fully engaged with the Joint Project Office (JPO) established between VIA Rail Canada and the Canada Infrastructure Bank (CIB).
Click to expand...

Five Million Passengers Chose VIA Rail in 2019: A Record Ridership in Three Decades

/CNW/ - With a record breaking five million passengers travelling by train in 2019, VIA Rail Canada (VIA Rail) announced today that it recorded its highest...
www.newswire.ca www.newswire.ca
 
Allandale25 said:
^ Speaking of HFR



Five Million Passengers Chose VIA Rail in 2019: A Record Ridership in Three Decades

/CNW/ - With a record breaking five million passengers travelling by train in 2019, VIA Rail Canada (VIA Rail) announced today that it recorded its highest...
www.newswire.ca www.newswire.ca
Click to expand...
no substance though... as Trudeau says daily, we are working on it and we are putting our best efforts to it... but is there a timeframe? quantities? status report? Better off just not saying a thing.
 
SFO-YYZ said:
Anyone has the full article? It's behind a pay wall, but sounds quite interesting.
Click to expand...

Can’t seem to be able to copy it on my phone but - the article mostly retraces the history of the CIB, the gist being that the CIB has spent as much time replacing key execs as it has finding projects to invest in.

There is only a couple of paragraphs directly referencing the HFR study, stating that they have had a lot of involvement from top-flight engineering firms to nail down the exact “route” and “alignment”. I am hoping the quote refers to detailed analysis of the right of way and what might be needed to address curves, connectivity, etc . - which is useful and necessary work getting acted upon.

One could also read it more pessimistically as looking at which line to use. The article claims that there will be consultations “along the various alignments” and “different studies that are necessary”. Which suggests some slowmoving political decisions might lie ahead and not simply a yes-no vote at Cabinet.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Can’t seem to be able to copy it on my phone but - the article mostly retraces the history of the CIB, the gist being that the CIB has spent as much time replacing key execs as it has finding projects to invest in.

There is only a couple of paragraphs directly referencing the HFR study, stating that they have had a lot of involvement from top-flight engineering firms to nail down the exact “route” and “alignment”. I am hoping the quote refers to detailed analysis of the right of way and what might be needed to address curves, connectivity, etc . - which is useful and necessary work getting acted upon.

One could also read it more pessimistically as looking at which line to use. The article claims that there will be consultations “along the various alignments” and “different studies that are necessary”. Which suggests some slowmoving political decisions might lie ahead and not simply a yes-no vote at Cabinet.

- Paul
Click to expand...
So essentially more political bs football passing. Nothing new. A concrete schedule and rfqs/rfps would be something new
 
Yeah. They are simply saying, "Yes. We're doing work. Promise."

I have no doubt they are actually trying to get something done. But the fact that the article says consultations aren't starting till August/September has me pessimistic about a launch by next year's budget. It sounds like no shovels in the ground till 2023 as a best case scenario.
 
^ Wonder if track plans/drawings will be provided to the "affected groups" that are "along the various alignments".

“There’s tremendous progress being made,” John Casola, the bank’s chief investment officer, told a committee of MPs Monday. “The team is working extremely hard, working with external world-class engineering firms, and is quickly narrowing down several alignment options, route options. All of those come with different studies that are necessary. [We’re] going to start consultations in the next month or two with all of the affected groups along the various alignments.”
 
Allandale25 said:
^ Wonder if track plans/drawings will be provided to the "affected groups" that are "along the various alignments".

“There’s tremendous progress being made,” John Casola, the bank’s chief investment officer, told a committee of MPs Monday. “The team is working extremely hard, working with external world-class engineering firms, and is quickly narrowing down several alignment options, route options. All of those come with different studies that are necessary. [We’re] going to start consultations in the next month or two with all of the affected groups along the various alignments.”
Click to expand...

What I’m curious about is getting final confirmation of how they’re gonna access Union. I know people have guessed the Stoufville line, but IMO it’s too busy with GO traffic. I really hope the Don Branch alignment is chosen. It would be really cool to see VIA using that line.
 
^ I can see some cons with the Don Branch though:
- conflicts with GO's new storage yard in terms of track access availability;
- CP Rail's two track bridge over the Don and a longer stretch of dealing with mainline CP trains;
- grade of the Don Spur and the condition of the bridge over the Brickworks;
- NIMBYs in the Governor's Bridge neighbourhood;
- they reach the CP Belleville Sub on the south side; and
- difficult access to Eglinton Crosstown LRT for a station.

What if by using the Stouffville Line, they built a connection track so they get to the north side, like this:

1593099832296.png
 
^ It’s doable, likely cheaper than Don Valley bridges along the Belleville Sub, but the TPAP/consultation materials for the RER expansion Kennedy- Scarboro Jct makes no mention of VIA as part of that project.

And as has been discussed, until the SRT is demolished the clearances on that corridor are pretty tight, so going beyond double track would be difficult.. Interference from RER would be a concern.

If VIA is about to EA that routing, on top of the RER TPAP’s, on top of the planning to abandon and demolish SRT, it’s a colossal left hand/ right hand collision.

My worry all along with HFR has been whether VIA, in the interest of keeping costs down, will make bad decisions about doing things on the cheap. Putting HFR on the Stouffville GO line, which has constrained width, feels like too many eggs in one basket. I would rather see HFR take the Don line, and build those bridges, so HFR gets a proper foundation for growth towards HSR.

- Paul
 
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crs1026 said:
^ It’s doable, likely cheaper than Don Valley bridges along the Belleville Sub, but the TPAP/consultation materials for the RER expansion Kennedy- Scarboro Jct make no mention of that option.

And as has been discussed, until the SRT is demolished the clearances on that corridor are pretty tight, so going beyond double track would be difficult.. Interference from RER would be a concern.

If VIA is about to EA that routing, on top of the RER TPAP’s, on top of the planning to abandon and demolish SRT, it’s a colossal left hand/ right hand collision.

My worry all along with HFR has been whether VIA, in the interest of keeping costs down, will make bad decisions about doing things on the cheap. Putting HFR on the Stouffville GO line, which has constrained width, feels like too many eggs in one basket. I would rather see HFR take the Don line, and build those bridges, so HFR gets a proper foundation for growth towards HSR.

- Paul
Click to expand...

Exactly. GO plans to run tons of service on the Stouffville line for RER. There simply isn’t enough space for the numerous passing tracks that would be required to properly let “express” VIA trains pass “local” GO trains. If VIA chooses Stouffville, then they will be back to where they are right now in terms of their trains getting stuck in traffic, but with GO trains slowing them down rather than CN freight.
 
^ I see that, but given it's not that long of a two-track stretch between Scarboro Junction and where the CP Belleville Sub intersects with the Stouffville Line, can't they make it work with signalling and crossovers? Plus the RER/GO Expansion GO trains will in their be shorter and be electritic so can't they squeeze in HFR?

@crs1026 good points. Just to debate and discuss. I can just see CP wanting a third track or more for their bridge over the Don River and imagine it would be expensive. Also, I'm not an expert but won't it be more complex to add bridge spans and support to that bridge since it has wide steel pillars rather than stone? Metrolinx/CN were able to add onto the existing pillars for their bridges over the Humber and Credit Rivers.

CP bridge:

Screen Shot 2020-06-26 at 2.11.13 PM.png


Hopefully some actual design and plans come out of this consultation mentioned in the Globe article.
 
^The problem I see is that westward HFR trains will have a variability of several minutes over the course of a run from Ottawa. So while in theory one could schedule them on paper in between RER slots, in practice they will turn up randomly and a certain number will face delay if they Have to follow a RER which will stop (at minimum) at Kennedy and possibly again if a SmartTrack station is added.
Also, as the connecting track would have to duck under CP, one would have to assume a “flat” junction with the RER. That would require one direction of HFR to cross over to/from the west RER track against the path of opposing RER Movements. That ties up both directions of RER for a few minutes each hour assuming hourly HFR. With an RER passing thru the junction every 7.5 minutes (assuming 15 minute headways in each direction) that’s a recipe for delays for somebody. And if ML or VIA ever wanted tighter headways....
Lastly, speed limits on the Stouffville line are pretty low. ML may intend to raise them, but using that line, and building a connector with tight curves, could cost HFR precious minutes of trip time. I would prefer that HFR get every possible bit of leverage. Slow track, combined with delay caused by conflict with RER, seems like penny wise but pound foolish.

- Paul
 
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