VIA Rail

[lenaitch]

Although I don't have the data, I get the sense that the Canadian is quite popular as a tourist train - in season - from no other observation than the length of the consist. I also don't know the demographics of the passengers but suspect it is biased to foreign visitors. Through Ontario, the Canadian doubles as a local with numerous flag stops at remote communities. In terms of the overall schedule and on-time performance, I don't know what impact these stops have. Besides, the train is the only link for many of these places.

Remote access is at the base of the battle to re-instate the SMM - Hearst passenger service. It is critical for many hunting/fishing outfitters, which is a large economic driver in the area. Hunters and anglers - many American - pay serious dollars for this, but they need to train to service them.

 

[cplchanb]

In other news I'm wondering if there's been any updates for the Churchill line? Have the tracks been repaired yet and service restored?

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Very exciting news! It seems as if the Prime Minister is on board:
Oui au train à grande fréquence, dit Trudeau

Key points from the article:

• Trudeau says that he knows that the project is "good for society, the environment, and economic growth"
• The business case is well-underway for the project, and Trudeau doesn't want to assume the results of the studies
• The Mt Royal tunnel is still an issue. Trudeau says that the key is that VIA HFR must be well-connected to REM, and that they are currently looking at solutions, like scheduling to make the projects compatible, but it is implied that a transfer is likely

On a personal note, I had the honour of meeting with the Prime Minister last week, and we chatted about HFR for a little bit. He was very positive about the project, and said that large projects are what potential Infrastructure Bank investors really are looking for, but didn't commit to HFR as strongly as the article above says he did. Didn't discuss specifics but he seemed very positive about the project, as the above article reflects.

 

[steveintoronto]

Alex: Excellent 'heads-up'. Here's the Google translation:

January 20, 2018 Updated at 0h32
Share
Yes to the high frequency train, Trudeau says
Gilbert Lavoie
The sun
Share
Without assuming the results of ongoing studies, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is in favor of Via Rail's High Frequency Train (TGF) project, which would connect Quebec City to the Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto triangle. "We know it's good for society, for the environment and for economic growth. This is the kind of investment that people expect, "Trudeau said in an interview with Le Soleil for Groupe Capitales Médias newspapers.


Recalling that his government has already announced $ 3.6 million in the 2016 budget to study this project, the Prime Minister said that the work has reached an important stage: "Now we are in the process of developing the business project , to see in a much more concrete way what it will look like. "

Via Rail's TGF project links Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City with new cars and a rail network dedicated solely to passenger transportation. Currently, this transport takes CNCP's freight train route, which extends the duration of the trips because of the many stops imposed by the meeting of freight trains. A railway network dedicated solely to passengers would considerably reduce the length of journeys, and would be much cheaper to build than a high-speed train network (TGV) like in Europe or Asia. The Ontario government believes, however, that the Queen's route to Windsor and the much denser southwestern part of the province could justify a high-speed train. No decision has been made.

Coordinate with EMN

Mr. Trudeau is still very optimistic about the TGF: "I think it will be possible," he said. When we see that 2017 was the busiest year in its history for Via Rail, we see that there is an appetite for alternatives, an appetite not to be caught in the traffic for a long time, as it is the case now.

One of the constraints identified in the feasibility of this project is the fact that the train from Quebec would pass on the north shore and should use the tunnel under Mount Royal to reach the central station. However, it is also the planned route for trains of the Metropolitan Electric Network (REM) led by the Caisse de dépôt and in which Quebec and Ottawa have given their approval and guaranteed their financial participation. "We will have to make sure that it will be compatible with the REM in Montreal. We are working on that, "said the Prime Minister.

Via Rail and the Government of Quebec are well aware that, since the Tunnel under Mount Royal can not be used, passengers on high-frequency trains to and from Québec should transfer to the metropolitan network, which means would hurt the goodwill. The studies therefore include the possibility of coordinating the schedules of the REM and Via Rail to use the same tunnel, which is not simple.

Could we expand the tunnel? "It's just something we're looking at, and I think no. But we need to coordinate well with the EMN, "said Trudeau.

***
[...comments on other matters...]

https://translate.google.ca/transla...-1b456edef686add50213cad7a45b867e&prev=search

I haven't digested this yet, must run right now, but beyond the obvious major point, the REM and Mt Royale Tunnel one is very interesting. I thought that was a fait accompli. Apparently not. This has implications beyond REM, namely the Caisse and BBD. Their 'omnipotence' isn't as complete as thought.

Once again, excellent heads-up! Comment later.

On a personal note, I had the honour of having dinner with the Prime Minister last week, and we chatted about HFR for a little bit. He was very positive about the project, and said that large projects like this are what potential Infrastructure Bank investors really are looking for. Didn't discuss specifics but he seemed very positive about the project, as the above article reflects.

PM's platitudes aside, the matter of inward investment remains ultimate.

A hunch: Approaches have been made by 'someone with very deep pockets' to not only fund this, but do so to the point of vertical ownership, using their own rolling stock un-tendered. And then another 'concern' has made a similar offer. May or may not be a consortium, some have virtually bottomless pockets to draw on within the corporation's financial foundation.

The problem for the nascent infrastructure bank and Trudeau et al is not that there isn't interest, quite the contrary, it may be that they *can't shepherd it on their own terms*!

Example for the doubting? Aecon. Takeover not being blocked even in light of CCCC's background. That's a green light for others to tread where there was no welcome mat before.

Some....*many* of the naysayers on the Gov't's failure to fund VIA can't exactly complain when private enterprise dives in where Cdns themselves were too timid to invest.

Btw: Was there desert after dinner with Justin?

On Aecon: I'd just link this but since it's subscription only, I'll quote what's relevant to my point re InfraBank, and its ability to be bypassed:

Ottawa’s unlikely to halt China’s deal for Aecon – but Canada’s construction giants can

Globe and Mail
Andrew Willis
Published 3 days ago Updated 3 days ago

We are in the final stages of an occasionally nasty campaign to block the $1.5-billion takeover of one of Canada's largest construction companies, Aecon Group Inc., by a far larger state-controlled Chinese firm.

It is a government relations battle that Aecon's domestic competitors are unlikely to win. The bid from China Communications Construction Co. Ltd. (CCCC) needs only the blessing of the federal Liberals to move forward, and to date, the rivals have been unable to make a convincing argument against the deal.

So instead, we're into mud-slinging. Journalists are receiving the electronic equivalent of plain brown envelopes: Anonymously e-mailed files are arriving, stuffed with stories about accidents and corruption at CCCC projects. The packages also contain a loopy argument that Aecon chief executive John Beck should turn down this deal because his wife, National Post columnist Diane Francis, has been critical of China's approach to business in past articles. As if this is the first marriage where a husband and wife hold opposing views?


Read more: Aecon rivals urge Ottawa to block Chinese takeover

If Canada's largest construction firms are really worried about a massive, state-controlled Chinese company elbowing its way into their sandbox and grabbing all the best toys, here is a simple solution: Step up and buy Aecon. [...]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...adas-construction-giants-can/article37651450/

 

[cplchanb]

I'd take whatever the pm says with a grain of salt. We all know that he's a great orator but when it comes to actual timely action not much can be said.

 

[steveintoronto]

I'd take whatever the pm says with a grain of salt. We all know that he's a great orator but when it comes to actual timely action not much can be said.

You read between the "platitudes". As to Hudson Bay Railway:
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/l...nce-makes-funding-announcement-469644163.html

 

[smallspy]

Although I don't have the data, I get the sense that the Canadian is quite popular as a tourist train - in season - from no other observation than the length of the consist. I also don't know the demographics of the passengers but suspect it is biased to foreign visitors.

As a repeat customer of the Canadian, I can tell you that the ridership is probably closer to 50/50 of Canadians and foreigners. It is on the bucket list of many Canadians, and there are many people who finally manage to take it shortly after beginning their retirement. I've also met several newlyweds who have taken the trip as part of their honeymoon.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[lenaitch]

In other news I'm wondering if there's been any updates for the Churchill line? Have the tracks been repaired yet and service restored?

Not that I have heard of. As far as I know the northern portion of the line is still out of service. The owner of the line (and port) says it is not economical to repair the line and the federal government has demanded that they do so under the terms of their charter. I have no idea how it will shake out. The Via consist that was stranded in Churchill was removed by ship in early Fall.

 

[steveintoronto]

Omnitrax to argue federal lawsuit over northern Manitoba rail line should be tossed
The case between Omnitrax and the federal government comes as negotiations to buy the line continue
CBC News Posted: Jan 08, 2018 4:00 AM CT Last Updated: Jan 08, 2018 4:00 AM CT

A heated game of finger-pointing between Omnitrax Rail and the federal government will continue next month in court as both debate over who should repair a damaged rail line in northern Manitoba.

The two sides squared-off after the Denver-based company, which owns the rail line into Churchill, didn't meet an Ottawa deadline to fix the flooded tracks.

Legal counsel for each side met in Winnipeg court Monday morning. A subsequent court date was set for Feb. 22 where Omnitrax is expected to ask to have the case thrown out.
[...]
Meanwhile hope was stirred in Churchill after Toronto investment firm, Fairfax Financial Holdings, announced it would partner with two groups representing northern communities and First Nations — Missinippi Rail LP and One North — who signed a deal to purchase the Hudson Bay Railway and Port of Churchill from Omnitrax back in June.

As the feds and Omnitrax prepared for their scheduled first day in court Monday, efforts to purchase the line continue with ongoing negotiations between Ottawa and the potential new owner group.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/omnitrax-and-ottawat-court-1.4476974

 

[steveintoronto]

The implications of the UK's Carillion collapse has been mentioned prior in this and some other strings at this site. It has lessons for both the provinces funding transit, and the Feds directly funding as well as indirectly funding via the Infrastructure Bank.

Articles have appeared in the quality Cdn press pointing out the obvious pitfalls of the *process* of structuring P3 and PFI models, not so much the value if done right.

NYTimes features an article on it in today's news:

Britain Isn’t Working
By AARON BASTANI

The collapse of Carillion may be the canary in the privatization gold mine.

 

[lenaitch]

The implications of the UK's Carillion collapse has been mentioned prior in this and some other strings at this site. It has lessons for both the provinces funding transit, and the Feds directly funding as well as indirectly funding via the Infrastructure Bank.

Articles have appeared in the quality Cdn press pointing out the obvious pitfalls of the *process* of structuring P3 and PFI models, not so much the value if done right.

NYTimes features an article on it in today's news:

Britain Isn’t Working
By AARON BASTANI

The collapse of Carillion may be the canary in the privatization gold mine.

Good article. Thanks for posting. I have no problem with, for example, the government paying the private section to build and manage a public building; i.e. the government becomes the tenant. I have worked in both - a government facilities management and a private one are different, but one is not necessarily better than the other. I have a huge problem; however, with the private sector operating core public services under contract. Imagine something like waking up one morning and finding out your air traffic control system closed the doors. We have gone down that rabbit hole to a degree but apparently not to the extent that the UK has. I feel sorry for the UK - once a world powerhouse, now, not so much, but in many ways they seem to be writing their own eulogy.

 

[steveintoronto]

Fingers crossed, and note the delineation of HFR funding apart from conventional fleet renewal. That portends a reasonable separation of the two issues, and the possibility/probability of another player entering the frame for HFR, and perhaps bringing their own stock to run the line:

BILL CURRY
OTTAWA
PUBLISHED 2 HOURS AGO UPDATED JANUARY 23, 2018

The Liberal government is sharpening its scrutiny of Via Rail's ambitious and costly expansion plans in the run-up to the 2018 budget.

While no final decisions have been made, the government appears to be working toward approving Via's $1.5-billion request for new trains in the short term.

The government would then ask the new Canada Infrastructure Bank to review the Crown corporation's multibillion-dollar plan to operate on new tracks exclusive to passenger rail along the Quebec City-to-Windsor corridor.


Via Rail submitted a plan to Ottawa in December, 2016, that coupled the need for a new fleet in that corridor with a proposal called "high frequency rail." That plan would involve new inter-city passenger rail lines designed to avoid current delays because freight trains are given priority on the existing network. The combined proposal could cost more than $6-billion if it involved electric power.

However, the government is treating Via's pitch as two separate decisions. In an interview with The Globe and Mail, federal Transport Minister Marc Garneau expressed clear support for Via's fleet-renewal request.


"There's no question that Via train service must continue and that some of the train cars are getting old and we need to address the issue so that we continue to have a reliable and predictable service," he said. "We need to replace the hardware once in a while." [...]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...llion-request-for-new-trains/article37714915/

Note that this is the first time Garneau has appeared as the figurehead of this scheme, even though it's his ministry. That bodes well...

And Bill Curry has a second earlier article by an hour up, explaining a different aspect, and revealing more subtle points:

BILL CURRY
OTTAWA
PUBLISHED 3 HOURS AGO UPDATED JANUARY 23, 2018

The Liberal government is sharpening its scrutiny of Via Rail's ambitious and costly expansion plans in the run-up to the 2018 budget.

While no final decisions have been made, the government appears to be working toward approving Via's $1.5-billion request for new trains in the short term.

The government would then ask the new Canada Infrastructure Bank to review the Crown corporation's multibillion-dollar plan to operate on new tracks exclusive to passenger rail along the Quebec City-to-Windsor corridor.


Via Rail submitted a plan to Ottawa in December, 2016, that coupled the need for a new fleet in that corridor with a proposal called "high frequency rail." That plan would involve new inter-city passenger rail lines designed to avoid current delays because freight trains are given priority on the existing network. The combined proposal could cost more than $6-billion if it involved electric power.

However, the government is treating Via's pitch as two separate decisions. In an interview with The Globe and Mail, federal Transport Minister Marc Garneau expressed clear support for Via's fleet-renewal request.


"There's no question that Via train service must continue and that some of the train cars are getting old and we need to address the issue so that we continue to have a reliable and predictable service," he said. "We need to replace the hardware once in a while."

Most of Via's fleet is at the end of its useful life and the company has said some rail cars will start to be pulled out of service as early as this year.
[...]
As for the broader question of whether to expand Via's existing service, Mr. Garneau said his department is currently engaged in more detailed analysis of the high-frequency rail proposal.

"We're digging down deeper now and doing sort of financial-grade studies to look at what the potential is for ridership," he said. "Secondly, we need to have a sense of to what extent the private sector would be interested in signing on to this as investors."

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has signalled his support for Via's high-frequency plan, telling Quebec City's Le Soleil newspaper in an interview published Saturday that it would be good for society, the environment and economic growth.


"It's the kind of investment people are expecting," he said.

Via's proposal would mean the construction of a new line between Toronto and Ottawa through Peterborough that would use an abandoned rail line that is currently a recreational trail. Meanwhile in Quebec, Via is proposing new service between Montreal and Quebec City along the north shore of the St. Lawrence River through Trois-Rivières.
[...]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...llion-request-for-new-trains/article37714915/

 

[crs1026]

^ Looks like Ottawa is finally willing to test drive the equipment pitch publicly. That's very encouraging.

I'm still anxious for the HFR pitch, mostly because the IB continues to be vapourware at this point. Surely those studies are done by now, also. Having a long, hypothetical discussion behind closed doors about whether investors would support the plan is no substitute for putting the plan out there and seeing who shows interest.

- Paul

 

[innsertnamehere]

^ Looks like Ottawa is finally willing to test drive the equipment pitch publicly. That's very encouraging.

I'm still anxious for the HFR pitch, mostly because the IB continues to be vapourware at this point. Surely those studies are done by now, also. Having a long, hypothetical discussion behind closed doors about whether investors would support the plan is no substitute for putting the plan out there and seeing who shows interest.

- Paul

I'm sure they are talking to OMERS et al to see if they are interested.

 

[steveintoronto]

Having a long, hypothetical discussion behind closed doors about whether investors would support the plan is no substitute for putting the plan out there and seeing who shows interest.

I'm sure they are talking to OMERS et al to see if they are interested.

And praying that anyone interested will do it through the IB. Increasingly, I see the possibility/probability of anyone with deep pockets looking at the IB in this instance, and thinking "The IB will only contribute a small fraction monetarily, and yet not allow us to use our own rolling stock without an open tender, and they'll be privy to everything we want to do. We'll just fund it completely ourselves, and tell them 'take it or leave it' on our terms other than what regulators like TC dictate in terms of running a railway".

For a private operator/builder to do this, there's not going to be much operating profit, but I believe it will be good value for the public. Where the advantage will be is for vertical integration, allowing an offshore company a foothold into Canada and to assemble and service their locos, rolling stock and other equipment here.

Why would they want to 'sell' their advantage to the IB for the pittance they'd gain? The IB is now up against its own design limitation. The IB is going to have to offer a heck of a lot more than a small fraction of cost.