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VIA Rail

One more reason why we need that new equipment order placed today, and not in 2025.

- Paul
I'm sure the point is known to *all* the parties on the Hill, but one wonders why the vacillation on this, in the big scheme of things, the cost of at least an interim step is not that great. I think it must be political more than fiscal. Pressure must be on sole sourcing, and those in the know are saying to piggyback on the multi-state coalition for Amtrak, and that isn't Bombardier. Perhaps Siemens have already made a pitch that's been accepted technically, with facets of the build done in Canada (which is probably a mistake, offset would be the better route), but it would be considered a slap against Quebec. We all know how the Flexity hose has kinked, but considering the REM grab of the Mount Royal Tunnel, perhaps Quebec is getting her due?

Perhaps Ontario could play a leading role in this with Alstom's participation and partnership with Siemens? It sounds fanciful, except that instead of it going directly on the books, it could be an arranged leasing or P3 as Metrolinx has become enamoured with of late. Wynne insists HSR is moving ahead. If that makes sense to her, then so should the Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal triangle.

Time to take a cue from US states?

Here's how Amtrak themselves promote this:
August 28, 2017
Siemens Charger Units Unveiled with Amtrak Midwest Logo
CHICAGO – New locomotives are now serving Amtrak customers in Illinois and Wisconsin, with the U.S.-built, Midwest-powered, Amtrak-maintained units slated to operate on state-sponsored services in the region. These Siemens Charger locomotives will please customers with enhanced smoothness, speed capability and safety features – along with reduced exhaust emissions. They carry the new Amtrak MidwestSM logo to promote the five-state network of connecting trains with a robust reservations system, eTicketing and mobile apps; AmtrakConnectSM cellular-based Wi-Fi; and the Amtrak Guest Rewards® program.

After deliveries are completed, these 33 locomotives will be deployed from Chicago on trains that served more than 2.6 million Amtrak customers in the last year: Lincoln Service, Illini/Saluki and Illinois Zephyr/Carl Sandburg to and from Downstate Illinois; Hiawatha Service in Illinois and Wisconsin; Wolverine Service/Blue Water/Pere Marquette to and from Michigan; and Missouri River Runner between Kansas City and St. Louis. The first Amtrak Midwest locomotive was unveiled at a news conference today at Chicago Union Station.

“Our individual Amtrak Midwest routes are made even stronger by being part of a network of connecting trains, stations, and reservation systems, which are a product of our state partners working together under the Amtrak umbrella,” said Michael Franke, Amtrak Senior Director – State Contracts. “These locomotives will power the Amtrak Midwest brand, bringing even better service to our customers.”

“We are proud to have led the effort to bring these attractive, modern locomotives to Illinois and our other state partners,” said Randy Blankenhorn, Illinois Transportation Secretary. “Passenger rail customers will benefit the most by enjoying a ride that’s more reliable and more comfortable as they travel between our state’s great communities, institutions and attractions.”

“We look forward to the improved efficiency and reliability that the Siemens Charger locomotives bring to intercity passenger rail services across the Midwest,” said David Simon, Director of the Bureau of Transit, Local Roads, Railroads, and Harbors at the Wisconsin Department of Transportation.

“This procurement with partnering Midwest states has shown we can work together for a common goal,” said Tim Hoeffner, Director, Michigan Department of Transportation Office of Rail. “In the coming weeks, Michigan will begin the replacement of older engines with brand new, high-tech locomotives operating on all of our passenger rail corridors, which will complement our 110-mph service.”

“Missouri is proud to be a partner welcoming safer, cleaner, faster and better locomotives to the Amtrak Midwest fleet,” said Michelle Teel, Multimodal Operations Director for the Missouri Department of Transportation. “Missouri River Runner passengers will benefit from improved performance when the locomotives go into operation soon between St. Louis and Kansas City.”

Manufactured by Siemens at its 1,000-person rail manufacturing hub in Sacramento, Calif., the new fleet offers numerous advantages, such as lower maintenance costs, reduced fuel consumption and quieter operation.

“We’re building these locomotives in California, for the U.S., bringing the latest technologies to life for riders,” said Armin Kick, Siemens Mobility Vice President for Locomotives. “These are among the nation’s cleanest locomotives and we’re proud to have not only worked closely with Amtrak and the state DOTs to bring these to the Midwest, but also our robust chain of suppliers from across the country.”

Powered by a Midwest-made 4,400 horsepower Cummins QSK95 diesel engine, the locomotives will be able to operate at speeds up to 125 mph, with faster acceleration and braking for better on-time reliability. They meet the latest safety regulations and feature better traction for improved performance.

They also are the first higher-speed passenger locomotives to meet the highest federal environmental standards, meaning a 90 percent reduction in emissions and a reduction in fuel consumption of up to 16% compared to the previous locomotives.

Purchased through $216.5 million in federal funds, the locomotives are just one part of a larger effort to improve passenger rail service in Illinois and the Midwest.

“Our individual Amtrak Midwest routes are made even stronger by being part of a network of connecting trains, stations, and reservation systems, which are a product of our state partners working together under the Amtrak umbrella,” said Michael Franke, Amtrak Senior Director – State Contracts. “These locomotives will power the Amtrak Midwest brand, bringing even better service to our customers.”

“We are proud to have led the effort to bring these attractive, modern locomotives to Illinois and our other state partners,” said Randy Blankenhorn, Illinois Transportation Secretary. “Passenger rail customers will benefit the most by enjoying a ride that’s more reliable and more comfortable as they travel between our state’s great communities, institutions and attractions.”

“We look forward to the improved efficiency and reliability that the Siemens Charger locomotives bring to intercity passenger rail services across the Midwest,” said David Simon, Director of the Bureau of Transit, Local Roads, Railroads, and Harbors at the Wisconsin Department of Transportation.

“This procurement with partnering Midwest states has shown we can work together for a common goal,” said Tim Hoeffner, Director, Michigan Department of Transportation Office of Rail. “In the coming weeks, Michigan will begin the replacement of older engines with brand new, high-tech locomotives operating on all of our passenger rail corridors, which will complement our 110-mph service.”

“Missouri is proud to be a partner welcoming safer, cleaner, faster and better locomotives to the Amtrak Midwest fleet,” said Michelle Teel, Multimodal Operations Director for the Missouri Department of Transportation. “Missouri River Runner passengers will benefit from improved performance when the locomotives go into operation soon between St. Louis and Kansas City.”

Manufactured by Siemens at its 1,000-person rail manufacturing hub in Sacramento, Calif., the new fleet offers numerous advantages, such as lower maintenance costs, reduced fuel consumption and quieter operation.

“We’re building these locomotives in California, for the U.S., bringing the latest technologies to life for riders,” said Armin Kick, Siemens Mobility Vice President for Locomotives. “These are among the nation’s cleanest locomotives and we’re proud to have not only worked closely with Amtrak and the state DOTs to bring these to the Midwest, but also our robust chain of suppliers from across the country.”

Powered by a Midwest-made 4,400 horsepower Cummins QSK95 diesel engine, the locomotives will be able to operate at speeds up to 125 mph, with faster acceleration and braking for better on-time reliability. They meet the latest safety regulations and feature better traction for improved performance.

They also are the first higher-speed passenger locomotives to meet the highest federal environmental standards, meaning a 90 percent reduction in emissions and a reduction in fuel consumption of up to 16% compared to the previous locomotives.

Purchased through $216.5 million in federal funds, the locomotives are just one part of a larger effort to improve passenger rail service in Illinois and the Midwest.
https://media.amtrak.com/2017/08/ne...rak-customers-state-sponsored-trains-midwest/
 
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This editorial in the local Peterborough paper recounts the recent timeline of getting passenger service back to Peterborough. It notes that VIA doesn't want frieght service to use the line as part of its HFR plan.
 
Not according to references I read: (And the SCR you state is the acronym for Selective Catalytic Reduction)

I was referring to the new EMD 1010 freight engine, which does not use SCR. The CAT C175 in the F125 does use SCR.

After the MPI HSP46, I can understand the trepidation. And six axles? I thought stability, traction and ride had all been optimized on four. Curious...are these recycled bogies?

I have'nt seen that much info about this concept, but GE/MPI did pitch it as a replacement for aging 3rd rail dual-mode locomotives that run in the NYC area. I'm not sure what kind of trucks it would have used, but the use of six axle trucks indicates that it would be too heavy to ride on just four axles. Anyway, the probable contenders for the upcoming NYC dual mode order are either Siemens, EMD, and Bombardier (as referenced in the document below, though it briefly mentions the MPI unit as well)...

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Docum...il_Req_Doc_for_E-Board__Approved_-_1-6-15.pdf
 
I'm sure the point is known to *all* the parties on the Hill, but one wonders why the vacillation on this, in the big scheme of things, the cost of at least an interim step is not that great. I think it must be political more than fiscal.

I once had to help my boss convince the top of the house that all the carpet in one of our biggest buildings had to be replaced, as it was 30ish years old and was allegedly (with supporting data) reaching the point of being a biohazard. It's hard to develop attractive ROI and NPV analyses for a 'cost of doing business' investment like carpet - the obvious objection is, can they last another two years? Every time we would meet with a senior executive to make the case, they would roll their chair back from the conference table, look down, stare at whatever bit of carpet they were sitting on, and reply "Doesn't look that bad to me". No amount of spreadsheet data or lab tests would overcome their own eyes telling them that there wasn't a crisis.

There are enough different ministries involved in a VIA spending request (Finance, Management Board, PMO, Cabinet) who can't tell a new train from an old train, and to whom a shiny 1950's VIA train looks quite modern enough. The more knowledgeable will point out that we rebuilt those 95mph F40PH's to "like-new" condition only a few years ago, and VIA's new Business Class interiors are pretty sweet. Surely they will last a little longer....

I suspect the same kind of bureaucratic thinking is going on here.

- Paul
 
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I enjoy non-stop trips on VIA with the family, staying a couple of nights and then returning on the train. I’ve done Montreal and Ottawa many times. What else is there? Is there anything worse seeing in London, ON?

I wish you could take a single train from Toronto to Quebec City, as the layover in Montreal is a deal killer. You could arrive in Montreal on the Toronto train and then rent a car and drive from Montreal to QC faster than the next train would get there!
 
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Incredibly sobering on the debate of "VIA's worth". The inverse of the 'triangle' results is to wonder 'what could they be with dedicated track?' Or the very least, fleet renewal?

From Reaper's chart, comparing closer to 'like for like', rank 2 and 3 are remarkably close results for average speed, and yet the 'Corridor' equipment is considered markedly superior to what VIA runs, and yet the averages are so close.

This doesn't mean for a moment that VIA or Canadians can slack off the abject need for better and newer kit, it just means given better conditions, VIA could really outperform.

Good observations. It's definitely very interesting that the so-called "fastest train in America" - the 241 km/h Boston-New York Acela - only ranks 5th on the list, surpassed by two non-high-speed VIA rail routes. Because although the Acela does reach very high speeds, it's only briefly on two sections of track while the rest is a relatively slow line along the shore. Meanwhile the Kingston Subdivision is good for continuous 95/100 mph (153/160 km/h) except for a handful of individual curves many of which are still over 80 mph (128 km/h). There's no way that the Havelock Subdivision would be upgraded to provide such uninterrupted fast running. Sure, it might reach 110 mph (177 km/h) in spots but the average speed would be lower due to the number of speed restrictions around curves.

It's also notable to look at rank 1 v. rank 2. It's a bit unfair to make a blanket statement, but for the huge jump-up in loco and stock, and I'd certainly not be the first to note this, HSR v HxR shows minimal gain on exactly the same RoW...*even with the Regional making more stops*!

I can hardly believe how little difference there is unless Reaper has compensated the stops out of the end figures?

I have not made any compensations whatsoever. It's simply the end-to-end time divided by the track distance. In the Google Doc I've now added the number of stops and average distance between stops on the right.

The 20 km/h difference between rank 1 and rank 2 (Northeast Corridor Acela vs Northeast Regional) is actually very impressive considering the speed limit for the Acela is only 10 mph (16 km/h) higher than the top speed of the Regional (135 mph vs 125 mph), and the number of stops is not that different. Amtrak is currently upgrading some segments of the railway to 160 mph (260 km/h), and then the Acela will pull ahead even further.

It will be interesting to see how the Amtrak California San Joaquin starts pushing its way up the list as it gets moved onto the 200 mph (320 km/h) California High Speed Rail line currently under construction between Fresno and Bakersfield. Initially the line won't be electrified so the speed is limited by the equipment (the 200 km/h Siemens Charger), but even so the average speeds in that segment will rival the 260 km/h Acela given that it will allow continuous 200 km/h running for the entire distance, with no restrictions for curves.
 
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I enjoy non-stop trips on VIA with the family, staying a couple of nights and then returning on the train. I’ve done Montreal and Ottawa many times. What else is there? Is there anything worse seeing in London, ON?
I take my friends and (sometimes also) my wife with me on board the train to beer festivals (Canadian Beer News lists them all in their excellent Beer Festival Calendar). That way we see new cities and have a guarantee that there is something to do when we arrive. We've so far done (from west to east) London, Kitchener, Toronto, Belleville, Kingston, Casselman, Cornwall, Drummondville and Quebec City and Kingston and Quebec are certainly worth doing a trip over the weekend or even longer (same goes for Belleville if renting a car there and exploring Prince Edward county). I also have to mention the VIA Blog, which has many articles with things to do for every major VIA station, for instance (again: from west to east): Windsor, Chatham, London, Kitchener, Toronto, Belleville, Kingston, Ottawa, Montreal or Quebec City...
 
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You could arrive in Montreal on the Toronto train and then rent a car and drive from Montreal to QC faster than the next train would get there!
Odd - I've not done it much lately, but I've seen trains where they arrive in Montreal and announce that this is actually the next train to Quebec City, so those travelling through can just stay in the car if they want. Hmm, or perhaps it was from Ottawa ...

Though that was before the timetable fell apart with the massive freight delays.

I opened the schedule. Wow, I had no idea they'd fully integrated the Quebec-Montreal and Montreal-Ottawa Service. So are they always putting engines at both ends, or backing it out of the Central station?

The schedule looks excellent from Quebec City to Toronto, changing in Montreal. Toronto to Quebec City doesn't work out as well - but there's options. The first train (60) from Toronto arrives Montreal at 11:57 AM, and you depart for Quebec City 48 minutes later ... though if you miss that connection, it's a 4-hour wait. 62 has a 2+ hour - though with all the delays, it might work quite well these days. And a good chance to have a long leisurely lunch in downtown Montreal. Similar for train 64. After that you are kind of done, because the last departure leaves Montreal at 6:25 pm. Could easily run another one 2 hours later, I'd think.
 
I was referring to the new EMD 1010 freight engine, which does not use SCR. The CAT C175 in the F125 does use SCR.
I wondered since I read your sentence a few times to see where "it" referred to. I correlate to all your references now, so let's jump this forward, I ended up talking to a diesel engineer (auto) quite by chance, and doing some reading on this.

I have'nt seen that much info about this concept, but GE/MPI did pitch it as a replacement for aging 3rd rail dual-mode locomotives that run in the NYC area. I'm not sure what kind of trucks it would have used, but the use of six axle trucks indicates that it would be too heavy to ride on just four axles. Anyway, the probable contenders for the upcoming NYC dual mode order are either Siemens, EMD, and Bombardier (as referenced in the document below, though it briefly mentions the MPI unit as well)...
This and further to your first quote...*weight* is the crucial issue as much as efficiency and clean-burn, and low NOx.

Diesel is the new coal. Most have given up defending coal, the concept of "clean coal" is a nonsense in terms. And the same denial is now affecting diesel.

The automotive world has pretty much written the obituary for diesel, for cars anyway. To get it clean requires so much detuning as to make the weight to thrust ratio no longer commercially viable as a fuel. How far behind is truck shipping? Good question...

Excellent mechanical engineering discussion here:
http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/bestpathtier4.pdf

But for rail diesel, as you indirectly indicate, it requires a trade-off in weight to get reasonable output, and credit to Cat for trying that route. The other route is doing rain dances and alchemy to turn the filthy exhaust into something that satisfies a bureaucrat's chemical sniffer, a whole question of legitimacy in itself.

Needless to say, this is a massively complex subject, and I'm taking a lot of claims very skeptically. One claim that surely has some truth is that the 'after treatment' approach is expensive. But I find that curious too...For dragging freight, perhaps, or stationary engines where thrust to weight ratios are rendered moot.

But for passenger use at speed, it seems *by present thinking* that after treatment is the most effective way to do it. Oddly I see no figures in my digging so far as to what it does cost an operator like Amtrak, VIA or even Metrolinx or eqiv for urea use. As a ball-park figure:
Automotive Grade Urea 46% Prilled price bulk adblue

Ad

US $230.0-280.0 / Tons
10 Tons (Min. Order)

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/urea-bulk.html

Something isn't adding up here, and it might not be the cost of urea alone. Is it the cost of the equipment and sensor/control systems where the "cost" is really occurring?

Or is there concern (perhaps quite justifiably, and I have a tingling sixth sense on this too, reading between the lines on corporate talk on this), that in fact the end product of after treatment isn't that clean at all? Like the VW diesel scandal (and all the diesel manufacturers were doing this) is this just satisfying an arbitrary test, and failing the real one of actual clean air?

I see the EMD 1010 is actually just the latest SD iteration, that alone means six axles. What's interesting is how it's being marketed and why. Operators aren't being sold fancy pants. They're being sold work-wear. And I have a nagging suspicion the approach might be the best there is for diesel as the tech now stands.

Many thanks for making me aware of that. More on this later...

Addendum: I'm not all around cynical, far from it, there's an elegant solution that's already a hot-topic: Electrification. The real discussion for utilizing diesel now is as an interim fuel until electrification *in dense areas and corridors* is established.

VIA has been made to miss the boat (there's some time left, but little sign of action). Is the Charger the best of a bad set of options? Quite possibly, but not if the story tips in the next year or so after acquiring *any* high-performance diesel locos that they're now spewing another type of toxin in lieu of particulates and NOx.
 
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Odd - I've not done it much lately, but I've seen trains where they arrive in Montreal and announce that this is actually the next train to Quebec City, so those travelling through can just stay in the car if they want. Hmm, or perhaps it was from Ottawa ...
Probably from Ottawa.

I opened the schedule. Wow, I had no idea they'd fully integrated the Quebec-Montreal and Montreal-Ottawa Service. So are they always putting engines at both ends, or backing it out of the Central station?
Backing out of the Central station. You'll usually find locomotives at both ends only between Toronto and Ottawa with the odd Toronto-Montreal or Ottawa-Montreal run around weekends for cycling and maintenance purposes...
 
Probably from Ottawa.
Probably not. I've done it a couple of hundred times coming from Kingston, and maybe thrice from Ottawa. But it wasn't recently. Easier to drive these days with 4 people, and a destination an hour out of the city in the hills.

Backing out of the Central station. You'll usually find locomotives at both ends only between Toronto and Ottawa with the odd Toronto-Montreal or Ottawa-Montreal run around weekends for cycling and maintenance purposes...
I can't offhand picture how the trains get from Central to ... I guess it must be the Victoria Bridge. Hmm, though presumably it's the same way that the old train to Sherbrooke would run which I've taken. Or the old CN train to St. Hilare ... I assume the new commuter service follows the same route.

Oddly, I've only taken the Quebec City train that ran along the north shore, rather than the south shore one.
 
I can't offhand picture how the trains get from Central to ... I guess it must be the Victoria Bridge. Hmm, though presumably it's the same way that the old train to Sherbrooke would run which I've taken. Or the old CN train to St. Hilare ... I assume the new commuter service follows the same route.
Indeed, trains to Quebec and RMT (formerly: AMT) trains to Mont-Saint-Hillaire go across the Victoria bridge. You can see that the Quebec-Montreal-Ottawa trains back out of the station to get turned by comparing the schedules of trains 22 and 33 with those of 622 and 633: 22 and 33 take 9-10 minutes longer to reach Saint-Lambert or Dorval, respectively, than trains 622 and 633 which originate in Montreal.

Oddly, I've only taken the Quebec City train that ran along the north shore, rather than the south shore one.
Given that the Quebec-Trois Rivieres-Montreal service was withdrawn on January 15, 1990, this would mean that your last train journey to Quebec predates my first visit to Canada by at least 20 years...
 
Given that the Quebec-Trois Rivieres-Montreal service was withdrawn on January 15, 1990, this would mean that your last train journey to Quebec predates my first visit to Canada by at least 20 years...
Possibly later ... I got off before Trois-Rivieres - and if I remember correctly, the service stopped going to Quebec City because the bridge over the Saint-Maurice failed - and it ran a bit longer to Trois-Rivieres while politicians debated it's future (sound familiar?).

But as you remind me. It's been a while. Perhaps I'm mixed up, and it has been that long. I haven't ridden the Sherbrooke train since 1989. Or the Ottawa one either, but I understand that one is still running. Heck, and I only recall taking the St. Hilaire for a few weeks; which should be dateable, as one day everyone came to the one side of the train, just as we were leaving Central, to watch the Space Shuttle Enterprise flying over. Spring 1983 if I remember correctly (was staying with an Aunt ... hmm, must have been just before I got my driving licence, as I was old enough by then).
 
The business case for investment into VIA or some private consortium leasing operations to VIA continues to grow, *even with the massive rolling stock and track access handicap VIA has*:
VIA Rail sets record for ridership over the holiday season
News provided by

VIA Rail Canada Inc.
Jan 09, 2018, 08:00 ET

• Number of travellers up 10%
• Revenues up 12%

HIGHLIGHTSFrom December 18, 2017 to January 7, 2018:



VIA RAIL CROSS-CANADA ROUTES308,000 passengers (up 9.7%)


QUÉBEC CITY–WINDSOR CORRIDOR
291,500 passengers (up 10.7%)

LONG-HAUL – EAST (OCEAN)7,700 passengers (up 1.5%)


LONG-HAUL – WEST (THE CANADIAN)
4,600 passengers (down 8.2%)

REGIONAL ROUTES 3,800 passengers (down 13.6%)


MONTRÉAL, Jan. 9, 2018 /CNW Telbec/ - As harsh winter conditions swept across the country, many thousands of Canadians chose VIA Rail Canada (VIA Rail) for their travel during the holiday season. From December 18 to January 7, trains from coast to coast carried 308,000 passengers — 10% more than in 2016-2017. The busiest day, Friday, December 22, saw VIA Rail trains transporting 20,700 passengers to their destinations.

"Our operations have been strained in recent weeks by cold spells and extreme winter storms. Over this busy season, we have doubled our efforts to limit the impact, provide good service and bring our passengers to their destinations safely. I thank our clients for their understanding and I want to acknowledge the dedication and professionalism of our front-line employees and our maintenance centers," said Yves Desjardins-Siciliano, President and CEO of VIA Rail.

In the Québec City-Windsor corridor, over 291,500 passengers travelled on the trains serving communities in and between Montréal, Québec City, Ottawa, Toronto, London, Windsor, Sarnia and Niagara Falls. Toronto-Ottawa was the most popular route: 35,800 travelled between these two cities over the period. Toronto's Union Station, a transit point for 180,000 travellers was especially busy during the holidays. Respectively, Montreal and Ottawa saw 92,000 and 78,000 passengers pass through their stations to be reunited with family and friends.

On the long distance trains, most of the passengers travelled to Halifax, Moncton and Vancouver. The Ocean service, which operates between Montréal and Halifax, welcomed almost 7,700 passengers. Six additional departures were offered over the holidays, giving more people the opportunity to travel by train to celebrate with their loved ones. Also, the Régie intermunicipale de transport Gaspésie – Îles-de-la-Madeleine (RÉGÎM) offered a shuttle service connecting Gaspé and the VIA Rail station in Campbellton, allowing some 200 passengers on the Ocean train to make transfers toward municipalities on the south coast of the peninsula, between Nouvelle (Québec) and Gaspé. Meanwhile, the Canadian, which connects Toronto to Vancouver, saw over 4,600 passengers onboard.

About VIA Rail CanadaAs Canada's national rail passenger service, VIA Rail (viarail.ca) and all its employees are mandated to provide safe, efficient and economical passenger transportation service, in both official languages of our country. VIA Rail operates intercity, regional and transcontinental trains linking over 400 communities across Canada, and about 180 more communities through intermodal partnerships, and safely transports nearly four million passengers annually. The Corporation was awarded five Safety Awards and three Environment Awards by the Railway Association of Canada since 2007. For more information, visit: www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail.
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...ership-over-the-holiday-season-668431823.html



 
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