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VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
Bordercollie
Senior Member
I didn't say it was a good idea. I just said that those are the choices.
nfitz
Superstar
Why is Montreal not a choice? Far closer than Winnipeg.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Why is anything going to Winnipeg that can’t go to North Bay? There is some sort of misunderstanding going on.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I think that would require a lot of legislative gymnastics at both the federal and provincial level. The ONR is not a federally regulated railway company, so having them operate a VIA service, particularly one that is isolated from their other operations, might be problematic. As it has be discussed in relation to other services, there doesn't seem to be a mechanism, or perhaps just the will, for the provinces to provide funding towards VIA services like AMTRAK enjoys.
If there was a need to have non-Siemans equipment maintained, better to simply contract that to the ONR and have VIA figure out the costs and logistics of getting equipment to/from North Bay. I thought there was a railway equipment maintenance company right in Sudbury. Weren't the RDCs once serviced at Capreol at one time?
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
I mean even if the White River service remains RDCs, re-timing and meeting ONR at North Bay without a through service would be a real improvement... though I think the ideal (and most realistic form of improvement) would be Federal subsidy for ONR to take over operation, with direct Venture/Charger trains from Toronto via North Bay on alternating days with the Northlander.
crs1026
Superstar
Because..... people who flag down the RDC and board with their canoe are destined all the way to Toronto ????
I think you misinterpret the point of this service.
I'm quite certain that whatever ails the RDC's, it can be fixed for less than the capital cost of a Venture trainset.
But it would be quite charming to see portage signage at Toronto Union, leading to a set-in point at Queens Quay. And people trundling their coolers full of freshly caught pickerel over to the Union Pearson platform. Just don't try to haul your canoe down the escalator to the VIA concourse.
- Paul
Bordercollie
Senior Member
How about proper connections with the Canadian at Sudbury? A real station perhaps?
Also you can take your canoe on the Canadian to head to your destination and what's wrong with that? I'm surprised people dont do it on the GO train.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
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crs1026
Superstar
My point was -
a) The White River RDC exists to serve local customers who are travelling to the nearest center of any size, not taking an intercity trip to a faraway place. A Canadian connection might be quaint, but it's not a viable business lever. All the ridership wants is to get to a grocery or hardware store, or medical or other service. Or a beer store.
b) While VIA may happily charge you for hauling your canoe to somewhere beyond Sudbury, there is no prospect of this ever being a sustainable market. Campers, sporting fisher types and hunters, and local residents require considerable haulage - which they achieve by parking their often large vehicle at either Sudbury or Cartier. The whole point of the RDC is that it is effectively a "last mile" conveyance where the roads do not create access to marketable camps, cottages, etc. Nobody is going to bring their whole kit on the train from Toronto or Winnipeg. Nor could they afford what VIA would have to charge to haul that much gear that far.
Other than past practice and perhaps politics, it's very hard to understand why these isolated residents warrant an expensive train, while the many remote residents living in cabins across the North make do without one.
It's a lovable train, and fun to ride, but let's not gild the lily. It has no relevance to a broader transportation network. It's just a local amenity.
- Paul
lenaitch
Senior Member
They couldn't do it even if the service was extended to North Bay since the Northlander trainset won't have baggage.
Canoes would be one thing. Seeing some butchered moose quarters being trundled through the Great Hall might give some folks vapours.
lenaitch
Senior Member
It's only about 2.5 km between CP and CN property. A moving sidewalk perhaps?
crs1026
Superstar
I hope this image makes it thru UTspace legibly - if not I will find some other way to display this.
It's a crude "string diagram" of the current VIA Corridor schedule between Oshawa and Brockville. (Yeah, two many rainy days in a row, perhaps)
The things to note are
a) The freights need to work in the white space, but there are periods of time where there isn't enough white space for a freight to proceed without a following VIA train catching up
b) The red squares are where one VIA train passes an opposing VIA train. These are significant, because those are points where CN must grant VIA access to two main tracks, either to simply let trains pass, or to cross one over in front of the other.
The time scale on this chart is one line for 12 minutes, and the collumns correspond to where CN has crossovers. So one square is roughly equal to one train occupying one "block", all things being equal.
It's a very crude effort, but it serves to make a point - CN gives VIA a very great deal of access at the moment, at least in theory. The complaint that CN is somehow antipathetic to VIA sure doesn't play out - if it were true, VIA would not be able to run this many trains in a day.
(The issue is, any freight trains that are out there cause delays and awkward dispatching..... but that's a different problem.....one wouldn't expect CN to simply vacate the line during daylight hours).
It sure looks like the Oshawa-Brockville part of the Corridor is chock a block with VIA trains already. Now we see why we can't run them faster or more frequently.
- Paul
It's a crude "string diagram" of the current VIA Corridor schedule between Oshawa and Brockville. (Yeah, two many rainy days in a row, perhaps)
The things to note are
a) The freights need to work in the white space, but there are periods of time where there isn't enough white space for a freight to proceed without a following VIA train catching up
b) The red squares are where one VIA train passes an opposing VIA train. These are significant, because those are points where CN must grant VIA access to two main tracks, either to simply let trains pass, or to cross one over in front of the other.
The time scale on this chart is one line for 12 minutes, and the collumns correspond to where CN has crossovers. So one square is roughly equal to one train occupying one "block", all things being equal.
It's a very crude effort, but it serves to make a point - CN gives VIA a very great deal of access at the moment, at least in theory. The complaint that CN is somehow antipathetic to VIA sure doesn't play out - if it were true, VIA would not be able to run this many trains in a day.
(The issue is, any freight trains that are out there cause delays and awkward dispatching..... but that's a different problem.....one wouldn't expect CN to simply vacate the line during daylight hours).
It sure looks like the Oshawa-Brockville part of the Corridor is chock a block with VIA trains already. Now we see why we can't run them faster or more frequently.
- Paul
micheal_can
Senior Member
North Bay shops cannot service the Siemens fleet. They will not be set up to.
You don't want my suggestion.... If we are talking the Siemens trains,they can work in a push/pull configuration. Have them start and end at Sudbury Junction, or even Capreol. You can get there from downtown through various ways.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
So create more capacity at those choke points on the condition that VIA will have priority to access them. If that will really solve the problem.