VIA Rail

[Urban Sky]

Do GO and VIA have to follow the same rules when one is provincially regulated and the other is federally regulated? Do we now what VIA's mandates from their owner say about safety goals and staffing ratios? Personally, I find it a stretch that VIA (having heard these complaints for literally decades) retains these practices without some requirement being imposed on them from high. Also, they don't impose the requirement to line up outside the major stations. So it's clearly not a required universal practice.

This has presumably less to do with federally-vs-provincially-regulated and more with GO following the North American standard practices for Commuter Rail operations and VIA following those for Intercity Rail operations. Go to any other major North American city served by Commuter and Intercity Rail and you‘d probably whitness the same contrast in their respective boarding procedures…

 

[reaperexpress]

I found those final comments a bit disconnected from the rest of the video, and rather uninformed given what even us spectators know about who actually makes decisions around VIA and how little room they have to really transform things constructively. I'm surprised that his research didn't bring that to light.

Yeah I also found the part about staffing costs to be a bit of a non-sequitur from the rest of the video. It probably should have been its own video, though it sounds like this is the last of Paige's series on Via and I guess he just wanted to toss that in before moving on to other topics.

But - he wasn't necessarily wrong with the point that ViA does not use its people as productively as they could. I agree with him that boarding is not streamlined as it could be. The need to queue up and show tickets to access platforms is indeed anachronistic. I have seen far better examples of "helpful" staff in other rail systems - but there are far worse also.. I generally find VIA employees as individuals very engaged and eager to help - but the roles as laid out may not be optimal.

I've also found that Via's front line workers themselves are top notch, and that they make the best of a cumbersome set of operational policy.

Boarding experience is so much better if you stay seated untile the queue has almost dissolved itself. I don‘t understand the Canadian obsession with queuing before boarding has started…

Canadians queue when there is a first-in first-out situation. Via actively creates such a situation by directing everyone in the entire station to access the platform through a single door even when many doors exist. That's why people queue to access a Via platform (one or two employees scanning tickets in turn) but they don't queue to enter a subway station (many independent fare gates side by side).

For example, in Ottawa station each platform has two access points, one on each side of the central pedestrian passageway. Even if they still want to check everyone's ticket before letting them into the platform area, it should be possible for them to operate that check in parallel like the fare line of a subway station. Most people can use the automatic gates by scanning the QR code on their ticket or phone, and one employee would be on hand to let anyone in who is having an issue with the gate.

Once people are in the fare-paid area, they should be able to use both of the doors to each platform. This would be enabled by LCD screens at each platform access which confirm which train is sitting at it (in addition to the signs in the waiting area which already tell you which platform your train will be at). For bonus points they could even say which coaches of the train are closest to which door.

But instead they divide the central corridor in half, so that when there are two simultaneous trains, passengers to/from one train use one side and the other train uses the other. Which causes 50% of their platform access capacity to be wasted.

 

[kEiThZ]

VIA’s boarding practices are built around occasional user, which doesn’t strike me as inappropriate. Neither does accompanying „Special Service Requests“ (i.e. passengers requiring help during the boarding process)…

I assume VIA has data on what percentage of their riders are regulars. It would be interesting to compare that to airlines and bus companies.

It is interesting though. This stuff annoys regular rail users. But whenever I see noobs on the train, all the staff seems very reassuring to them. Will be interesting if/when HFR comes around and a lot of this service model has to be changed. I assume if you miss your stop in Peterborough, they'll not be paying for a cab from Smiths Falls.

Amtrak, Eurostar and major rail stations in Italy, France and the UK (presumably also Spain) come to my mind. All these only announce train platforms when the train is ready to board…

You even get airport style security at some of those stations. Personally encountered that. Lots of railfans seem to both forget about this practice in Europe or excuse it. So lining up to board is not okay. But lining up to go through security at the entrance of the platform, right before you board, is just fine.

 

[reaperexpress]

What was that bit at the end about?

It was about spending an unnecessary number of staff hours accomplishing unnecessary tasks, like babysitting passengers as they walk to/from the platform. I don't remember anything in there saying that Via employees should have smaller salaries.

Ah yes. Journalists usually swear at the main subject of their stories right at the end of the report.

This "journalist" also advocated for cutting Ottawa out on his last HFR video. Now he's on to cutting Quebec City and VIA employees apparently. I wonder what his next video will suggest cutting.

Maybe CBC is a dayjob for him. But these videos and the rants on them are more unfactual railfan than "journalist".

So if I were to tell you to fuck off, would that suddenly make me no longer a transport planner, because transport planning documents usually don't have swearing?

This is clearly his own personal opinion piece, which is why it is posted on his personal channel. The videos he made for the CBC do not contain swearing.

The topic of his video is to suggest that a smaller scope for HFR would make it easier to get it off the ground. Once HFR actually exists, it will be easier to expand to the rest of the corridor, such as to Quebec. It's not like he's suggesting that the Toronto-Ottawa portion should be cancelled either, merely that it could be helpful to omit from the first phase for political and cost reasons.

Do GO and VIA have to follow the same rules when one is provincially regulated and the other is federally regulated? Do we now what VIA's mandates from their owner say about safety goals and staffing ratios? Personally, I find it a stretch that VIA (having heard these complaints for literally decades) retains these practices without some requirement being imposed on them from high. Also, they don't impose the requirement to line up outside the major stations. So it's clearly not a required universal practice.

If Via is in fact forced to implement all those inefficient procedures against their will, they can tell us so when we ask that they be changed. But given that they are not universally applied, it is very likely that they originate within Via itself.

But if it turns out that the issue is regulations, then they can be changed. But they will only get changed if there is public desire to do so. One of the most effective ways of creating a public awareness is to create a video where you document the issues.

 

[kEiThZ]

This has presumably less to do with federally-vs-provincially-regulated and more with GO following the North American standard practices for Commuter Rail operations and VIA following those for Intercity Rail operations. Go to any other major North American city served by Commuter and Intercity Rail and you‘d probably whitness the same contrast in their respective boarding procedures…

I'd be curious about how an entirely new entity handles boarding. Wonder how Brightline does it?

 

[micheal_can]

I'd be curious about how an entirely new entity handles boarding. Wonder how Brightline does it?

Who handles boarding on GO?

 

[kEiThZ]

One of the most effective ways of creating a public awareness is to create a video where you document the issues.

If you make a video insinuating that all the problems with VIA stem from their employees, it's unlikely that viewers will come away thinking that federal and provincial regulations are the problem.

Go look at all the comments on this video. There's a lot of folks who think VIA Execs never ride trains apparently. Where do you think they got that impression?

Like I said earlier, I don't think these folks understand the damage they are doing to VIA is an institution when they constantly push the idea that it's VIA's own incompetence that is entirely holding VIA back. All that is being done is making it easier for a future government to argue that VIA is a moribund organization that should be scrapped entirely.

 

[nfitz]

It is honestly hilarious how ironic this comment of yours is. Rather than actually doing the research of looking into his videos and history, you decided to apply your pre-formed opinion about all 'YouTubers' to him.

I worked with Paige on the early stages of research for this video and I can assure you that Paige is absolutely here to tell the truth. If his goal was to make a quick buck, he definitely wouldn't be spending months doing research, interviewing people in the field, doing GIS analysis, extensively documenting his assumptions and citing his sources ....

What's really ironic is that I wasn't talking about anyone in particular.

I've never even heard of Paige, outside of a couple of comments above, that I've not followed up on. I have absolutely no nothing about who you are talking about. Any associations you may have drawn to Paige were entirely in your own mind!

 

[micheal_can]

If you make a video insinuating that all the problems with VIA stem from their employees, it's unlikely that viewers will come away thinking that federal and provincial regulations are the problem.

Go look at all the comments on this video. There's a lot of folks who think VIA Execs never ride trains apparently. Where do you think they got that impression?

Like I said earlier, I don't think these folks understand the damage they are doing to VIA is an institution when they constantly push the idea that it's VIA's own incompetence that is entirely holding VIA back. All that is being done is making it easier for a future government to argue that VIA is a moribund organization that should be scrapped entirely.

How often do you think the senior leadership team have ridden Via over driving/flying to the same place?

 

[kEiThZ]

So if I were to tell you to fuck off, would that suddenly make me no longer a transport planner, because transport planning documents usually don't have swearing?

I might be less inclined to take you seriously as a professional, if you did that at the end of a video talking about transport planning.

You can't say he's a journalist in one breath and then argue that he shouldn't be held to the standards of a journalist in the next. If he wants the respect of a journalist, he should act like one in all content that is trying to report and not clearly opinion based. And if he wants to argue that it's opinion, he should be a lot more clear about that in his videos. That end bit was a lot of "begging the question" type of efforts to lead the viewer.

 

[Mihairokov]

How often do you think the senior leadership team have ridden Via over driving/flying to the same place?

I've sat across from VIA execs on the Corridor on more than one occasion. I think the answer to your question is "frequently".

 

[kEiThZ]

How often do you think the senior leadership team have ridden Via over driving/flying to the same place?

Often enough actually. I've come across some in my trips in the past. And I would bet if it's travel between the TOM cities, they'll use the train often enough. But I don't expect the CEO to wait for days or travel for days with the Ocean or the Canadian. That would be a silly waste of time and money.

 

[kEiThZ]

On boarding, apparently all VIA has to do is put in full security with baggage scanning and wanding and then they'll be able to tell the YouTubers how they are just like Spain. Should end the complaints about lining up right? Now people won't be lining up to board. They'll be lining up to get searched.

Heck, at one Spanish station, we couldn't even enter the station without going through full security.

 

[micheal_can]

But I don't expect the CEO to wait for days or travel for days with the Ocean or the Canadian. That would be a silly waste of time and money.

See, I would. How are they actually supposed to know how good or bad it is if they do not experience it. Every flight in Canada they take should mean 1% of their pay,plus the cost of the flight should be taken from them. If they are as good as people here speak of, they would be quite content with being at the mercy of which they are in charge of.

 

[reaperexpress]

What's really ironic is that I wasn't talking about anyone in particular.

I've never even heard of Paige, outside of a couple of comments above, that I've not followed up on. I have absolutely no nothing about who you are talking about. Any associations you may have drawn to Paige were entirely in your own mind!

Your post was in direct response to a discussion about a specific video by Paige Saunders. It is reasonable to assume that given that you were continuing that discussion, that you were talking about the topic of the discussion.

If you make a video insinuating that all the problems with VIA stem from their employees, it's unlikely that viewers will come away thinking that federal and provincial regulations are the problem.

I don't think he specifically claimed that the problems stemmed from their employees. He definitely complained that Via does or doesn't do things, but I don't think the intent was to assign personal blame. But generally I do agree that videos from the public tend to unintentionally trigger professionals by misattributing (or even just not attributing) the sources of problematic practices. Which in most cases is due to ignorance, not malice.

Go look at all the comments on this video. There's a lot of folks who think VIA Execs never ride trains apparently. Where do you think they got that impression?

I did notice a lot of comments that were problematic like that, and lots of "make Paige CEO of Via" comments, which are equally stupid.

I get a lot of stupid comments on my videos too, and they are often based on total misunderstandings of the content of the video, or are mostly unrelated to the actual points made in the video. The most common comment on my video about how to calculate red clearance times for traffic signals was that all signals should be replaced with roundabouts, even though I think that's an incredibly stupid oversimplification and it has nothing to do with the things I actually talked about in that video.

Like I said earlier, I don't think these folks understand the damage they are doing to VIA is an institution when they constantly push the idea that it's VIA's own incompetence that is entirely holding VIA back. All that is being done is making it easier for a future government to argue that VIA is a moribund organization that should be scrapped entirely.

The framing of videos is indeed quite important. Ideally they are framed as drawing attention to the changes that are required, rather than making accusations about why those changes haven't happened.