Union Station: Northwest PATH Expansion

[mdrejhon]

York PATH options need to greatly expand, stat.

 

[tnarduzzi]

This is what I mean about signs. Leaving the York concourse to the north you see this big sign which tells you the Path is to the left. I bet 100% of people who need help finding the Path actually should be turning right at that junction.

View attachment 71432

The wayfinding is bad right now... but this... This is just stupid. It is not the new signage I was speaking of but stupid nonetheless. Indicating that the PATH is left and not even the OPTION for right at all... no wonder you saw so many lost tourists.

PS. The new wayfinding signs are white text on a grey background. They appear to be semi-temporary in nature. Perhaps "beta" signage?

 

[ADRM]

It really cannot be overstated how bad the wayfinding is—it's a real problem. I've been through a few of the new concourse areas at Union with tourists/visitors in the city for the first time on three occasions in the last couple months and they've been completely aimless and directionless trying to navigate through there (and one of said travellers has visited literally every country in the world save 10, so these are seasoned travellers).

For one, much of the wayfinding—as in that picture—is at about chest level, rendering it essentially useless once there's a decent crowd. I think the larger problem, though, is that there's just so little signage! Whoever's in charge of that at both Union and Pearson clearly didn't get the memo—you need to *hit people over the head with wayfinding*; yes, it should be smart and simple, but there should also just be a *bunch* of it, everywhere—double up, triple up, just have signage everywhere at different levels so one simply cannot miss it.

Slightly off-thread, but I also had exactly the same concerns about the UP Express. Setting aside (if we can, just for a minute) all the related furor surrounding UP, I thought from the first time I took it that it was extremely poorly signed. I'm a veteran traveler and have taken airport expresses all over the world (and was excited to try UP for the first time) and it just takes way too much effort to find/know about it. The best two examples I can think of in terms of better treatments are London's Heathrow Express and the Hong Kong airport express—as soon as one exits the baggage area (and before, for that matter), it's just SIGNAGE, SIGNAGE, SIGNAGE, everywhere—they make it seem as though the airport express is the best and only option to get into the city.

 

[mdrejhon]

For one, much of the wayfinding—as in that picture—is at about chest level, rendering it essentially useless once there's a decent crowd. I think the larger problem, though, is that there's just so little signage! Whoever's in charge of that at both Union and Pearson clearly didn't get the memo—you need to *hit people over the head with wayfinding*; yes, it should be smart and simple, but there should also just be a *bunch* of it, everywhere—double up, triple up, just have signage everywhere at different levels so one simply cannot miss it.

There is a such a thing as signage overload (too many bad signs in the wrong locations). TTC, VIA, GO/RER/ST, UPX, ACME, XYZ, and someday HSR. So we need a Department of Wayfinding or a Wayfinding Improvement Association (WIA) at Union to redesign all of this properly, beautifully, simple, and non-cluttered, yet signs everywhere exactly where they need to be to make every tired commuter happy, no more, no less.

The WIA will be like a BIA except to prevent people going MIA!

 

[DSC]

There is a such a thing as signage overload (too many bad signs in the wrong locations). TTC, VIA, GO/RER/ST, UPX, ACME, XYZ, and someday HSR. So we need a Department of Wayfinding or a Wayfinding Improvement Association (WIA) at Union to redesign all of this properly, beautifully, simple, and non-cluttered, yet signs everywhere exactly where they need to be to make every tired commuter happy, no more, no less.

The WIA will be like a BIA except to prevent people going MIA!

Yes the problem usually is that new signs are invented or designed but old ones seldom get removed so one ends up with several generations of signage. Ones that are totally wrong MAY get removed but .....

 

[Transportfan]

I have heard, maybe here, the owners of the HSBC building do not want the connection since it would turn their building into high traffic free way for access to Union, and it's not really designed to accommodate that. They don't want the hassle of hundreds of people walking up and down their stairs, potentially getting injured, providing security, helping lost people, etc...

If Wellington isn't feasible, the tunnel will hit the main PATH if extended north to King at the Sun Life Centre.

 

[DSC]

If Wellington isn't feasible, the tunnel will hit the main PATH if extended north to King at the Sun Life Centre.

PATH is generally paid for by the buildings it enters - a tunnel up to King would be lovely but who will pay for it?

 

[TOareaFan]

PATH is generally paid for by the buildings it enters - a tunnel up to King would be lovely but who will pay for it?

who paid for the bit from NW corner of Union to the island on the north side of front between York and University?

 

[DSC]

who paid for the bit from NW corner of Union to the island on the north side of front between York and University?

That part was paid for by the City (I think) as it links to a City-owned building (Union Station).

 

[TOareaFan]

That part was paid for by the City (I think) as it links to a City-owned building (Union Station).

so, could they not also pay to extend it to where ever it needs to go to actually connect to the path network?

 

[DSC]

so, could they not also pay to extend it to where ever it needs to go to actually connect to the path network?

Of course, THEY could but "we are they" and that may not be the top priority. I am certainly not saying it would not be a good idea to extend the PATH but there are lots of sections that "should' be built - my top link would actually be CBC to Convention Centre to give a proper connection further west but I bet others have other ideas. (In fact they express them on the PATH EXPANSION THREAD ..... http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/path-network-expansion-various-various-various.20620/page-19

 

[tnarduzzi]

York PATH Cxn. Appears the City was willing to pay to Wellington at least. I haven't heard any updates recently however. http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=bd95962c8c3f0410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

EDIT: Per the Toronto Staff Report at the link.

A new underground pedestrian tunnel situated primarily below the York Street right-of way. The new tunnel would start at the northwest corner of the Union Station property and extend northerly to the existing underground PATH system at two locations – at the PATH level at 70 York Street and immediately south of the property located at 100 Wellington Street W;

 

[tnarduzzi]

York PATH Cxn. (Source: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2008/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-11855.pdf)

 

[tnarduzzi]

York PATH Cxn.

Appears the City was willing to pay to Wellington at least.

Oh shit. Nevermind. Digging deeper it seems this is the current situation: (Source: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-49650.pdf)

A second construction phase will complete the connection to the existing PATH at York Street/Wellington Street. Completion of Phase 1 does not commit the City to the second phase of the project, nor are there any contractual obligations to the second phase of construction. The approved budget for the North West Path Extension is $66 Million and was based on the 2007 Environmental Assessment cost estimate. Significant design and delivery issues have arisen during the design process. Updated cost estimates for the entire North West Path Extension to the existing PATH at York Street/Wellington Street are now estimated at about $100 Million, an increase of $34 Million. As such, undertaking Phase 2 of the North West Path will require additional funding. Staff will develop a funding strategy inclusive of federal and provincial contributions for Council's consideration and approval prior to tendering the Phase 2 works.

 

[nfitz]

City council deferred (aka cancelled) the Northwest Path extension in July 2015, removing it from the Union Station Revitalization budget. http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2015.GM5.19

Now the feds are looking for shovel-ready projects, perhaps this might get revived.

There is a thread for that part of the project at http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/union-station-northwest-path-expansion.553/