TTC targets farebox cheaters

[slickpete83]

what about the other 22 million $$$ wasted by the corrupt unions and big FAT pensions and other wasteful spending !!!
i support unions , just not in the public sectors


Fare evasion by the numbers, i think most of these numbers are made up !!! , let's see how much extra $$$ they spend on staff labour & + Overtime trying to fight this Fare evasion problem , maybe create some committee with a board of directors making 6 figures trying to solve this problem .... hahahaha...

 

[Electrify]

What I wrote on Steve Munro's website:

Is the TTC being cheated when someone makes a quick stopover at an intersection and transfers on to a connecting route? Is the TTC being cheated when someone makes a quick stopover midblock and thus needs to pay an extra fare to travel the same distance as usual?

Is the TTC being cheated by a downtowner who uses their Metropass for 50 rides, but 10 of those rides are for very short trips on electric streetcars? Is the TTC being cheated when another person uses 40 tokens per month to travel from Rouge Hill GO to Long Branch GO?

I do not condone fare evasion, but I’d say the TTC does just as good a job cheating its passengers with its arcane transfer rules and creative accounting as some of its passengers do.

 

[nfitz]

Vancouver is installing an openpayment based system, including fare gates which they do not currently have, for under $100M. There is reason to believe TTC cost would be similar.

Translink has a lot less buses than TTC doesn't it? I'm having a hard time finding a count for the number of buses in Vancouver, but they only seem to have half the number of employees. A simplistic view then is that it would cost under $200 million in Toronto. Presto has estimated that implementing it's system for TTC would be about $300 million, and I recall TTC arguing it would be $400 million.

So quite reasonable to believe a more sensible off-the-shelf system incorporating open-payment could be done for under $200 million.

Anyone got a reference to the number of vehicles Translink has?

 

[rbt]

July 2011 Base Plan Report ( http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Doc...1 Transportation and Financial Base Plan.ashx )

TransLink provides over 200 bus routes throughout the region with a fleet of 1,556 conventional bus and
community shuttle vehicles.

That number does not include their Paratransit vehicles.

It's my understanding that their high-volume ferry terminals and regional rail (West Coast Express) stations that will be outfitted as part of the same package.


What is interesting is their 2020 predictions are for 425 Million revenue trips per year. The open-payment maintenance agreement goes until about 2022, so this transaction volume is covered in the $220M contract for fare collection system.

 

[nfitz]

July 2011 Base Plan Report ( http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Doc...1 Transportation and Financial Base Plan.ashx )

They seem to have about 50% of the ridership and 50% of the employees. I guess if they have about 75% of the vehicles we have, and only 50% of riders and employees, then they must have more buses than only run in peak compared to off-peak. Still then you'd think their cost should be about 75% of ours.

It's my understanding that their high-volume ferry terminals and regional rail (West Coast Express) stations that will be outfitted as part of the same package.

Still that's less total stations/terminals than TTC has subway and RT stations. Translink only has 2 ferry terminals (and 3 ferries), and only 8 regional rail stations. 75% seems to hold for this.

Hmm, that leads to a thought ... should Presto be expanded to the Toronto Island passenger ferries? You'd only need 4 stations.

 

[SimonP]

I think I might have seen some of this crack down on "fare evasion" last night. I was on the Queen streetcar and a couple, who were clearly tourists, got on at York St with a transfer from the University subway line. The driver proceeded to lecture them on how such a transfer was only valid at University Avenue, and he really shouldn't let them on if they were trying to use it at York.

If something like that counts as fare evasion, it shows just how arcane the transfer rules are. If you come out from Osgoode Station at the opera house you're almost as close to York as you are to the University stop, and if the light has just turned red it's a much closer walk to York St.

Even if it was much further along, there is no way this should be considered fare evasion, as they have paid and it should make no difference to the bottom line which stop they get on.

 

[gweed123]

I think I might have seen some of this crack down on "fare evasion" last night. I was on the Queen streetcar and a couple, who were clearly tourists, got on at York St with a transfer from the University subway line. The driver proceeded to lecture them on how such a transfer was only valid at University Avenue, and he really shouldn't let them on if they were trying to use it at York.

If something like that counts as fare evasion, it shows just how arcane the transfer rules are. If you come out from Osgoode Station at the opera house you're almost as close to York as you are to the University stop, and if the light has just turned red it's a much closer walk to York St.

Even if it was much further along, there is no way this should be considered fare evasion, as they have paid and it should make no difference to the bottom line which stop they get on.

...Meanwhile, the guy with a transfer from 6 hours ago hops on the University subway because the booth collector is reading his paper and only glances up briefly at the piece of paper the guy is holding. He then proceeds to get a 'fresh' transfer from the machine in the station, and gets a free ride. Great system, isn't it?

 

[toraerach]

I think I might have seen some of this crack down on "fare evasion" last night.

I think I may also have seen it at work tonight on my way home. I was on the 506 heading westbound in rush hour when some kid got on at Yonge through the rear doors. The streetcar driver refused to budge until this kid (wearing headphones and oblivious to her ultimatum) came to the front and paid fare. Needless to say this caused a lot of frustration for the rest of us packed on board as the traffic lights cycled to green again and again while we just waited. By the time we started moving again two other streetcars had bunched up behind us. Was it really worth that one fare? The driver also started cracking down on student metropass holders without their photo ID cards earning her the moniker "the streetcar Nazi" in a group of young ladies sitting behind me.

 

[doug]

In NYC for example if the NYPD catches you evading a transit fare you will minimum receive a Transit Adjucation summons
and pay a fine

In Toronto, the TTC encourages riders to board via the rear doors, they don't check for a valid transfer or pass, then they whine about fare evasion.
Those suckers who get on at the front, and pay, get screwed out of a seat.

I do also know that if anyone assaults a Transit employee such as a Bus Driver it is considered a felony punishable by up to 7
years in prison worst case scenario...

In Toronto, TTC drivers assult their passengers.

 

[PinkLucy]

I've noticed drivers more frequently checking student ID this week but none of them seem to give a hoot about transfers.

 

[Johnny Au]

I also notice that bus and streetcar drivers check post-secondary ID more often than before.

 

[Tuscani01]

I still have no problem getting on the 501 after exiting Queen Station at Yonge, but walking to Victoria Street. The day they start denying me entry because its not Yonge street I will put up a big stink. When you exit Queen Station's northbound platform, you are closer to Victoria Street than you are to Yonge Street.

 

[ShonTron]

The fact that there is still a stop at Victoria at all for 501/2, 504/3 and 505 cars is ridiculous as it is, especially with the new extra-long LRVs coming to provide the legacy streetcar service.

Many of the stops pre-date the modern route structure. The reason why there's stops at Simcoe, University and at York on the 504/508 is because York and Simcoe were always streetcar stops, but when University Avenue South extension and later the University subway opened that stop was added, without removing either of the two immediately adjacent stops.

 

[nfitz]

The fact that there is still a stop at Victoria at all for 501/2, 504/3 and 505 cars is ridiculous as it is, especially with the new extra-long LRVs coming to provide the legacy streetcar service.

Those stops in particular seem quite heavily used. In the densest section of downtown, the biggest delay is the amount of time people spend loading and unloading, rather than the stop/start time of the vehicle. I don't think that removing the stops would actually save much. At least with the current boarding.

Though I'm certainly in favour of eliminating some stops ... some are shockingly close together. I'd even be in favour of spacing out many of the stops more. Perhaps there will be an opportunity to do that as they introduce the new vehicles.

 

[Tuscani01]

Those stops in particular seem quite heavily used. In the densest section of downtown, the biggest delay is the amount of time people spend loading and unloading, rather than the stop/start time of the vehicle. I don't think that removing the stops would actually save much. At least with the current boarding.

Though I'm certainly in favour of eliminating some stops ... some are shockingly close together. I'd even be in favour of spacing out many of the stops more. Perhaps there will be an opportunity to do that as they introduce the new vehicles.

Not to mention Victoria Street also serves St. Mikes Hospital. Its definitely a stop worth saving.