TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

[Palma]

And again,coming down spadina, one transfers at St. george, then Yonge. Never mind hving to take a bus to get say to Wilson and then transferring onto subway. Or walking 15-20 to get to the subway prior to the eventual transfers. We are not obligated to develop transit so that no one needs to transfer. It would be impossible

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

And again,coming down spadina, one transfers at St. george, then Yonge. Never mind hving to take a bus to get say to Wilson and then transferring onto subway. Or walking 15-20 to get to the subway prior to the eventual transfers. We are not obligated to develop transit so that no one needs to transfer. It would be impossible

It's called a private automobile.

 

[Electrify]

And again,coming down spadina, one transfers at St. george, then Yonge. Never mind hving to take a bus to get say to Wilson and then transferring onto subway. Or walking 15-20 to get to the subway prior to the eventual transfers. We are not obligated to develop transit so that no one needs to transfer. It would be impossible

It's one thing to transfer when switching corridors, it is another when they ate all along same corridor. Especially when one of those lines is only a few kilometres long and goes from nowhere to nowhere.

 

[nfitz]

It's one thing to transfer when switching corridors, it is another when they ate all along same corridor. Especially when one of those lines is only a few kilometres long and goes from nowhere to nowhere.

Ah, you must travel up Kingston Road as well. Need about 5 vehicles on a weekend!

 

[Dan416]

But isn't this just the inverse of the more kilometres for $$$s that LRT fans put out?

I hate to say that I agree with nfitz, but he's not off-base. If it's going to cost a billion to get to Vic Park and that's not going to happen, then what's the point of simply defending the status quo and imposing an unnecessary transfer on millions of riders. Not to mention lacking commonality in rolling stock along the corridor, and incurring higher costs when going west along Sheppard when using HRT.

There will be no northern crosstown. A York U student staying in Scarborough will see commute drop by 10-15 mins at best. If Sheppard does get extended westward (which probably won't happen if Finch West is built till Yonge), then he might get a ride that saves him 20-30 mins compared to today. Yet, if Sheppard was built as originally envisioned, that student would see their commute cut in half. Sure this is admitting defeat. But I submit that's what Toronto is about these days. Rather than build a transit system that gets people to where they want to go in a reasonable amount of time, our goal is now to give them a more comfortable ride and get them there in a time that will let them enjoy one more cup of coffee at breakfast time. And years from now, when billions have been spent, we'll still have the same gridlock, because all those folks who don't work downtown or along one of the LRT avenues will still be driving because transit will still take them twice as long.

I think its worse than that. People aren't going to get out of their cars for LRT. People may think Ford is a moron, and he is, but his gut feeling on this is right.

I find it ridiculous that a city of this size has given up on subways, even though when it was a lot smaller it was building way more.

When is the last time the Bloor line was extended? Before I was born! How much has the west end grown since I was born? A lot! And even the last extension was only one stop, from Islington to Kipling.

It just gets from bad to worse. But hey at least we'll have those LRTs at-grade to hold us over until we can build subways underneath them at $1 billion per km in 50 years.

 

[GenerationW]

While a DRL is desperately needed, that's not what's on the table at present, and making it a part of this round would only slow things up even more. Once this fight is over, we can move on to the DRL.

Spending $0.00 out of $8.4 billion on what most here believe is Toronto's highest priority transit project does nothing to guarantee moving on to a DRL the next round, and the next opportunity to spend billions however we want may not come for another decade (or it may never come again).

 

[Tulse]

Spending $0.00 out of $8.4 billion on what most here believe is Toronto's highest priority transit project does nothing to guarantee moving on to a DRL the next round, and the next opportunity to spend billions however we want may not come for another decade (or it may never come again).

All that is true, but there isn't any money in that $8.4 billion earmarked for the DRL, and there has been no planning/EA process for the DRL, so it simply is not possible to include it in the current process.

 

[BMO]

I think its worse than that. People aren't going to get out of their cars for LRT. People may think Ford is a moron, and he is, but his gut feeling on this is right.

I find it ridiculous that a city of this size has given up on subways, even though when it was a lot smaller it was building way more.

When is the last time the Bloor line was extended? Before I was born! How much has the west end grown since I was born? A lot! And even the last extension was only one stop, from Islington to Kipling.

It just gets from bad to worse. But hey at least we'll have those LRTs at-grade to hold us over until we can build subways underneath them at $1 billion per km in 50 years.

That's the thing, a lot of people advocating for Ford's transit plan, didn't actually vote for Ford, or like him much. I personally don't like the guy or support him, but I do support his vision of expanding the subway system by looking at various other funding schemes for it.

His plan will have 25M more ridership than the LRT plan, and the kicker is that even though his plan reaches less ppl, the % of ppl in that area who will use transit is actually larger than the LRT plan that spans a much larger area. Essentially, with LRT you're providing transit to a greater base of citizens, but in reality, most will not use it.

We have to extend the subway system, we also have to pay for it. Implement a reasonable funding scheme to get it done. We will only get $8B once, we have to start looking at how we'll fund transit past the $8B. Saying LRT is the best option for the money is ludicrous, because we would have to extend transit afterwards regardless, and then we'd still need to look at how we'd fund stuff (like the DRL for instance). Choose an option that will work the best, and find a way to pay for it, whether it be through tols, taxes, or other financing tools.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Here is one argument that you just can't argue against in favour of expanding the sheppard subway: It will save future generations from having moronic populist mayors waste further resources and time on. We can always just mothball it when it is done. Every km of Sheppard subway that gets built is one km closer to us funding important projects such as the Downtown Relief Line.

 

[LAz]

Here is one argument that you just can't argue against in favour of expanding the sheppard subway: It will save future generations from having moronic populist mayors waste further resources and time on. We can always just mothball it when it is done. Every km of Sheppard subway that gets built is one km closer to us funding important projects such as the Downtown Relief Line.

I'd be happy if they extend it any bit. Of course, I want more, but heck, 2-3 stops is good enough for me for now.

The thing is that many cities in the world are expanding their systems very rapidly. If they can do that surely we can get a SMALL extension...

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

His plan will have 25M more ridership than the LRT plan, and the kicker is that even though his plan reaches less ppl, the % of ppl in that area who will use transit is actually larger than the LRT plan that spans a much larger area. Essentially, with LRT you're providing transit to a greater base of citizens, but in reality, most will not use it.

Well, you've really drank the Ford Kool-Aid. Do you really think his plan will have 25mn more riders, when he won't actually be able to build it?

 

[Mulder]

That's the thing, a lot of people advocating for Ford's transit plan, didn't actually vote for Ford, or like him much. I personally don't like the guy or support him, but I do support his vision of expanding the subway system by looking at various other funding schemes for it.

His plan will have 25M more ridership than the LRT plan, and the kicker is that even though his plan reaches less ppl, the % of ppl in that area who will use transit is actually larger than the LRT plan that spans a much larger area. Essentially, with LRT you're providing transit to a greater base of citizens, but in reality, most will not use it.

We have to extend the subway system, we also have to pay for it. Implement a reasonable funding scheme to get it done. We will only get $8B once, we have to start looking at how we'll fund transit past the $8B. Saying LRT is the best option for the money is ludicrous, because we would have to extend transit afterwards regardless, and then we'd still need to look at how we'd fund stuff (like the DRL for instance). Choose an option that will work the best, and find a way to pay for it, whether it be through tols, taxes, or other financing tools.

An underground, or complete ROW for the Eglinton LRT would act as a mini subway. I'd liken it to parts of the Edmonton or Calgary system. It would bring people in. As soon as they put it on the roads/in the middle of the roads. That's where they will lose out on ridership.

I honestly think they should scrap the idea of LRT going to Kennedy station for now. End it at Laird, Leslie or Don Mills. See what the impact is.

 

[Rainforest]

An underground, or complete ROW for the Eglinton LRT would act as a mini subway. I'd liken it to parts of the Edmonton or Calgary system. It would bring people in. As soon as they put it on the roads/in the middle of the roads. That's where they will lose out on ridership.

I honestly think they should scrap the idea of LRT going to Kennedy station for now. End it at Laird, Leslie or Don Mills. See what the impact is.

First of all, the projected increase in ridership for the fully underground option is mostly due to riders switching from Danforth subway, rather than new riders.

Secondly, the mini-subway solution has its own issues (a potential speed-capacity mismatch: fast line attracts more riders from parallel routes than what it can accommodate without being overcrowded).

Even with some street-median sections, Eglinton will be faster than any other Transit City line, and the average speed (averaged for both the underground and surface sections) will be close to subway speed.

 

[unimaginative2]

First of all, the projected increase in ridership for the fully underground option is mostly due to riders switching from Danforth subway, rather than new riders.

That's one of the most important aspects of any Eglinton RT line. Relieving the BD was one of its main purposes since the days of Network 2011.

 

[car4041]

That's one of the most important aspects of any Eglinton RT line. Relieving the BD was one of its main purposes since the days of Network 2011.

With regard to the part of the line in question -- Eglinton East -- I would dispute both of those statements. Building a new subway to relieve the Danforth line isn't anybody's priority, not when the capacity situation on the Yonge line is much more dire. (And while the DRL is motivated by the need to relieve Yonge, it would take people off the most crowded part of the Danforth line too.) And it certainly wasn't the priority of Network 2011, which proposed nothing for Eglinton East at all.