TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

[44 North]

if we wait ten years to start the drl there will be sl many communities downtown that the stop spacing will have to be very similar to the spacing between union and bloor. every new community will want its own station which essentially means that if people transfer to the drl to get to union they will be for sake of comfort not for sake of time.

I don't think that's true. I believe it would follow a route with stop-spacing similar to the originally proposed line. Albeit, with a slight jog added so that it could touch onto the waterfront area (with that station being boarded-up until waterfront developments are complete). I'm sure there will be some bickering about station locations (e.g Corktown vs West Don Lands, Sherbourne vs Jarvis etc), but nothing major.

And I'm hoping the stations remain small like St Andrew, with nothing overtly extravagant like the Vaughan ext. Preferably completely underground stations and zero bus bays; with the only surface features being pedestrian portals. IMO this would significantly reduce the need for major expropriation, or having the TTC get into the business of dealing with air rights above stations (I don't think they're very good at real estate).

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I think the real tipping point to the DRL is going to be when (not if) York Region lines up support and funding for the Yonge extension. Then we'll see if Toronto meets the challenge or remains in hibernation.

York Region has been very vocal in its support and lobbying for Yonge. If their funding is the deal breaker, there's no question they'll pay up. But they need something from the upper levels first. Metrolinx is doing some kind of prioritization exercise which I suspect will be more of a tipping point than whatever the region does.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...ectprioritization/project_prioritization.aspx

There's a lot of wheels in motion....and no money.

 

[Dan416]

I don't think that's true. I believe it would follow a route with stop-spacing similar to the originally proposed line. Albeit, with a slight jog added so that it could touch onto the waterfront area (with that station being boarded-up until waterfront developments are complete). I'm sure there will be some bickering about station locations (e.g Corktown vs West Don Lands, Sherbourne vs Jarvis etc), but nothing major.

And I'm hoping the stations remain small like St Andrew, with nothing overtly extravagant like the Vaughan ext. Preferably completely underground stations and zero bus bays; with the only surface features being pedestrian portals. IMO this would significantly reduce the need for major expropriation, or having the TTC get into the business of dealing with air rights above stations (I don't think they're very good at real estate).

I have a feeling we'll never see small subway stations again. The only reason the Eglinton stations are so small is because they're LRT.

The DRL stations will probably be Sheppard-sized.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Wait a minute. No way, NO WAY York Region pays up to build any portion of a DRL (Unless the DRL reaches York). The only reason York is funding the Spadina, and would be willing to fund the Yonge extensions is because they are funding their share of the construction within their boundaries. York is cutting a number of routes, after an increase with the debut of VIVA, apparently because they don't have the funds to run these routes.

Can you imagine Toronto telling York "if you want the Yonge extension you must pay x dollars for a DRL. It would be viewed as a ransom!

 

[11th]

I have a feeling we'll never see small subway stations again. The only reason the Eglinton stations are so small is because they're LRT.

The DRL stations will probably be Sheppard-sized.

They should get rid of the mezzanine level. First level should be fare gates, and a side-platform. Second level would be another side-platform. Then use movator (for going up from L2 to L1) and ramp to connect the levels.

 

[sixrings]

Can you imagine Toronto telling York "if you want the Yonge extension you must pay x dollars for a DRL. It would be viewed as a ransom!

it is exactly ransom. Although it probably will be ransom to the province versus specifically york region. otherwise toronto has no incentive to build a yonge extension and further make it over crowded.

 

[drum118]

Well, if York wants a under use line and having their people having first choice of seats while the folks at Finch, Sheppard and Eglinton are force to stand, then they need to cough of the money to help cover the cost of the extension and the DRL.

If the DRL can remove 15/20,000 riders at peak hours from the Yonge line, then there would be more room for York and the Yonge riders to find a seat.

This is great until Yonge St runs out of room for building tall building and we will be back to Sq One, as to where you put all these new riders like today issue with the line stopping at Finch.

York is $2 B in the hole and needs this extension to recover that lost $2B.

 

[Palma]

I have a feeling we'll never see small subway stations again. The only reason the Eglinton stations are so small is because they're LRT.

The DRL stations will probably be Sheppard-sized.

An why would this be? They will not need any buses. I would think and hope the stations would be exactly like the stations on the University line.

 

[Palma]

Well, if York wants a under use line and having their people having first choice of seats while the folks at Finch, Sheppard and Eglinton are force to stand, then they need to cough of the money to help cover the cost of the extension and the DRL.

If the DRL can remove 15/20,000 riders at peak hours from the Yonge line, then there would be more room for York and the Yonge riders to find a seat.

This is great until Yonge St runs out of room for building tall building and we will be back to Sq One, as to where you put all these new riders like today issue with the line stopping at Finch.

York is $2 B in the hole and needs this extension to recover that lost $2B.

And how are they going to recover the 2B? Will that money not belong to the TTC? Are you trying to say York will get some of the proceeds of the TTc money? How is that possible and how are they going to come up with a formula for the ridership pass Steeles? This s crazy.

 

[44 North]

I agree with a clause in the York extension contract whereby York Region funds the DRL. Perhaps a fair assessment would be 30% of the costs for an eastern leg, plus 5% of the TTC's overall operating costs for the next millennium.

I mean, hey, if a poorly planned sprawling mess that is the GTA wants to water-down Toronto's service - while simultaneously attempting to make their suburban cities somewhat sustainable - it should cost them.

 

[JoeParez]

Well, if York wants a under use line and having their people having first choice of seats while the folks at Finch, Sheppard and Eglinton are force to stand, then they need to cough of the money to help cover the cost of the extension and the DRL.

No they don't. The ultimatum in this scenario is "if York wants to extend Yonge past Steeles, then York pays for it." Exactly like the Spadina Extension.

What good does a DRL do for York Region? Nothing. So why should they pay for it?

And this "905ers getting a seat" business is laughable. C'mon! It's public transit. When a person, weather they are from Toronto or Vaughan pays $3.00 to get onto the TTC it's fair game with whoever gets a seat.

 

[JoeParez]

I agree with a clause in the York extension contract whereby York Region funds the DRL. Perhaps a fair assessment would be 30% of the costs for an eastern leg, plus 5% of the TTC's overall operating costs for the next millennium.

I mean, hey, if a poorly planned sprawling mess that is the GTA wants to water-down Toronto's service - while simultaneously attempting to make their suburban cities somewhat sustainable - it should cost them.

Again -- What good does a DRL do for York Region? Nothing. So why should they pay for it?

 

[44 North]

Again -- What good does a DRL do for York Region? Nothing. So why should they pay for it?

What good does a York extension do for Toronto? Nothing. So why should we pay for a necessary relief line?

 

[sixrings]

the ttc wanted the subway to get to york uni. the tradeoff was going to vaughan. the ttc does not care if the subway gets to steeles therefore the extension has no hope of getting built unless the ttc gets something it wants. plus the university side is far less crowded then the yonge side. this has to play into things as well. also your comments about getting a seat being a free for all is whats really laughable. torontonians at eglintkn and south of eglinton cant even get on to the trains right now because its so crowded. it is not laughable that torontonians cant even use their own public transit because 905ers are taking their space yet alone the seats.

 

[Paleo]

No they don't. The ultimatum in this scenario is "if York wants to extend Yonge past Steeles, then York pays for it." Exactly like the Spadina Extension.

What good does a DRL do for York Region? Nothing. So why should they pay for it?

And this "905ers getting a seat" business is laughable. C'mon! It's public transit. When a person, weather they are from Toronto or Vaughan pays $3.00 to get onto the TTC it's fair game with whoever gets a seat.

As it stands now, the TTC and by extension the property taxpayers of the City of Toronto are the ones covering the operating losses of the entire Spadina extension while York Region gets to save some money by using fewer buses.