TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[BurlOak]

Relief Line North hasn't even finalized the alignment (publicly) yet.

Design is a good 2 years behind the RL Short. (minimum)

RL North to Eglinton (and beyond) will happen. But not quickly enough to address Y/B issues in the medium term.

I have said from the first viewing of the analysis that the DRL short will not accomplish much, and any benefit will be lost due to higher ridership in general.
That is why the key was to design the transit line as cheap as possible, so that it could be extended farther north for the same price. Unfortunately, Ms. Keesmaat and her team completely ignored costs came up with a very expensive alternative.
Regarding Y-B, the best time to create a disturbance at this station is when there is an alternative - and that will only occur when the DRL long is completed. A grade-separated Eglinton-Scarborough LRT from STC and Malvern would have helped as well as people could easily have got to the Science Centre instead of being tempted to go to Y-B.

 

[steveintoronto]

I have said from the first viewing of the analysis that the DRL short will not accomplish much,

We disagree politically on a lot, but on this, we see the same thing: It's throwing a *massive* sum of money to fix the leak in the plumbing when the whole line is creaking, and the problem just moves somewhere else. Like St George.

Meantime the same investment put elsewhere will not only alleviate the crush, it will improve the overall system in other ways, not least in offering more meaningful trips for many, and added redundancy for when one route fails, which is starting to happen at greater frequency in Toronto as an overall run-down and minimally up-kept system inevitably fails in spots.

And then there's the massive problem of no Line 1 service for "a year" (is the popularly touted time figure) to build the centre island platform. At least the challenge at Union was far easier and didn't have another major line running underneath it. And I fail to see how Line 2 is not also going to be severely affected from this.

Whatever, it's not going to be Toronto's *direct* problem soon with a subway upload. I'm no fan of Ford's, or Tory's, or much of what's occurred in Toronto transit planning for generations, but here's hoping that Metrolinx will look at this again, and realize other than minor tweaks (elevators, signalling, etc) it's best to leave what's extant intact, maximize the investment already in it, and future investment goes into parallel service means.

I'm absolutely all for the Relief Line, but one that offers *Real Relief*, not a bleed off to prevent the overstretched balloon from bursting, but to replace it entirely, and allow the balloon to go back to working the way it was at a design limit pressure. I certainly see trains in tunnel doing it, I don't see them being old school subways. And they must connect into the regions. It will be provincial money paying for this. It's only fair that the Scarboroughs and outer burbs (regions) get benefit too, and that's not with "subways". It's going to be under the "Rapid Rail" umbrella (RER, Metros, and LRTs).

There's lots of excellent models to follow for guidance on the business and technical cases.

 

[Northern Light]

....

And then there's the massive problem of no Line 1 service for "a year" (is the popularly touted time figure) to build the centre island platform. At least the challenge at Union was far easier and didn't have another major line running underneath it. And I fail to see how Line 2 is not also going to be severely affected from this.

....

There will be no Line 1 closure.

There will be no new centre platform for line 1

Those are no longer in the plans at all.

****

There will be a new dedicated eastbound platform for line 2.

There will be a substantially enlarged mezzanine area on the line 1 level.

There will be a shift and enlargement of the stairs/escalators on the existing line 2 platform as it becomes westbound only.

The project proposal is very similar to what was done at Union.

 

[steveintoronto]

There will be no Line 1 closure.

There will be no new centre platform for line 1

Those are no longer in the plans at all.

****

There will be a new dedicated eastbound platform for line 2.

There will be a substantially enlarged mezzanine area on the line 1 level.

There will be a shift and enlargement of the stairs/escalators on the existing line 2 platform as it becomes westbound only.

The project proposal is very similar to what was done at Union.

I've searched for what you claim, and can find nothing. Do you have reference for this? I think it's only fair you supply some.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I've searched for what you claim, and can find nothing. Do you have reference for this? I think it's only fair you supply some.

This TTC board meeting document, PDF on pages 44 and 45: https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...TTC_Capital_Investment_Plan_Supplementary.pdf
And this Steve Munro article: https://stevemunro.ca/2019/01/21/33-billion-and-counting-part-ii/
This one is older and less fact based: https://stevemunro.ca/2007/04/10/expanding-bloor-yonge-station/

 

[steveintoronto]

This TTC board meeting document, PDF on pages 44 and 45: https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...TTC_Capital_Investment_Plan_Supplementary.pdf

That's it? Seriously? "100% unfunded?"

And this Steve Munro article: https://stevemunro.ca/2019/01/21/33-billion-and-counting-part-ii/
This one is older and less fact based: https://stevemunro.ca/2007/04/10/expanding-bloor-yonge-station/

As per Munro's most recent post linked:

The Bloor-Yonge project would involve building a second platform at the lower level of the station for use by eastbound passengers somewhat like the new platform at Union for Yonge line passengers. This would trigger an expansion of the mezzanines connecting with the upper level to provide for vertical circulation and a better distribution of traffic through the station.

However, the western end of the station structure is physically within buildings on the north side of Bloor Street, the level of Yonge Station is deeper than at Union, and there is a high water table. This will not be a simple project, and it has a price tag of $1.1 billion.

Another major station project will be the addition of Platform Edge Doors (“PEDs”). The details and scope of this work are still to be revealed as part of a study now in progress.

The overall breakdown of the $3.9 billion for “stations” projects is 27% for Bloor-Yonge Station, 24% for completion of station accessibility by 2025, 6% for escalators and elevators, 32% for PEDs, and 11% for “other”.

As with the “subways” plan, this section would benefit from more detail and a chronology cross-referencing major projects with other significant events such as planned increases in the level of service and the opening of extensions that will add to demand.

https://stevemunro.ca/2019/01/21/33-billion-and-counting-part-ii/

I'd referenced that prior in another string, frankly thought it impertinent when trying to make sense of Northern's claims.

I stand by my prior claims on the matter. Platform edge doors? Absolutely. I've no idea why it's taken the TTC this long to realize the need at Y/B and St George, but "$1.1B" (at this time) to tinker with a line that should be 'relieved' (and not just the station)...I've made my point clear prior.

I await @Northern Light 's reference for his claims.

 

[Leo_Chan]

That's it? Seriously? "100% unfunded?"

I thought it was clear that the second Line 2 platform was unfunded...

 

[Northern Light]

That's it? Seriously? "100% unfunded?"

As per Munro's most recent post linked:

https://stevemunro.ca/2019/01/21/33-billion-and-counting-part-ii/

I'd referenced that prior in another string, frankly thought it impertinent when trying to make sense of Northern's claims.

I stand by my prior claims on the matter. Platform edge doors? Absolutely. I've no idea why it's taken the TTC this long to realize the need at Y/B and St George, but "$1.1B" (at this time) to tinker with a line that should be 'relieved' (and not just the station)...I've made my point clear prior.

I await @Northern Light 's reference for his claims.

@Leo_Chan has the public sources correct.

The private ones I can't give away.

 

[Leo_Chan]

@Leo_Chan has the public sources correct.

The private ones I can't give away.

Private sources? Give a hint who?

 

[steveintoronto]

I thought it was clear that the second Line 2 platform was unfunded...

Of course it was, the whole article was about the $33B unfunded needs, as the TorStar made clear in their featured article. My incredulity wasn't for your post or you, it was aimed elsewhere.

Private sources? Give a hint who?

I'm with you. And I'd still like to know how the claim that it won't interrupt either line is achieved.

I'd also be very interested in what the legal arrangement was between the TTC/City and the original owners of the buildings concerned. (Now Brookfield)

 

[drum118]

That's it? Seriously? "100% unfunded?"

As per Munro's most recent post linked:

https://stevemunro.ca/2019/01/21/33-billion-and-counting-part-ii/

I'd referenced that prior in another string, frankly thought it impertinent when trying to make sense of Northern's claims.

I stand by my prior claims on the matter. Platform edge doors? Absolutely. I've no idea why it's taken the TTC this long to realize the need at Y/B and St George, but "$1.1B" (at this time) to tinker with a line that should be 'relieved' (and not just the station)...I've made my point clear prior.

I await @Northern Light 's reference for his claims.

How can you demand platform edge doors when TTC has no idea at this time what the TR2 is going to be and when it will be order? Also, ventilation for stations still has to be done as well when along with 2nd entrances.

There is no plan change for Line 1 at Bloor, other than dealing with Line 2 change.

Have you every thought of calling x party at x company to get info or past on your concerns?? How about doing an email or a letter?? You are good at posting things and bitching about things and responses, but you don't walk the talk. There is no one on this board that can do what you want, other than you.

I have walked the talk for 15 years and have made changes.

 

[steveintoronto]

How can you demand platform edge doors when TTC has no idea at this time what the TR2 is going to be and when it will be order?

The TTC makes prominent mention of it themselves in the report, that's how.

Platform edge doors (as possible) .................................. $1.3 billion total 100% unfunded

And I "demanded" nothing. I merely pointed out priorities, sensible affordable ones. The TTC is quoting for *all* stations. How fffing ridiculous.

And btw, to digress a bit from the answer, PEDs *don't* have to match to the present rolling stock. There are ones made that automatically sense where the doors are and to match to them accordingly. IIRC, one operator was using three different makes of rolling stock with differing door centres w/o a problem. Not all PED makes, of course, but it's become a convenient excuse for inaction.

 

[amnesiajune]

Has there ever been any serious consideration of splitting the Yonge-University Line in half, or splitting service in half during rush hour? It seems like it happens way too often that a problem happens on one side of the line, but it screws up the entire line (and as a result also screws up Bloor-Danforth).

 

[W. K. Lis]

Instead of just creating a new Line 2 Bloor-Danforth platform at Yonge-Bloor, maybe split Line 2 into a Bloor line to Yonge, and a Danforth line to St. George. Transfers between the Bloor line and the Danforth line at Yonge, Bay, and St. George.

 

[Amare]

Has there ever been any serious consideration of splitting the Yonge-University Line in half, or splitting service in half during rush hour? It seems like it happens way too often that a problem happens on one side of the line, but it screws up the entire line (and as a result also screws up Bloor-Danforth).

If you thought platforms were packed with continuous service along the Yonge-University and Bloor-Danforth lines, just wait and see what would happen if service was split in half.