TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[steveintoronto]

In fact, why have windows on the sides, when the very first "subway" trains were completely open on all sides?

From link.

That was one of London's first punk bands, and due to the lack of modern keyboards and instruments, it took at least four blokes wot wuz needed just to play a tambourine. And wot took another five to pout and stomp around which is where modern bands got the idea of dancers from. They termed this "Underground Music" and this particular lot is wot wuz called the 'Underground Roundells' and they was on tour around London in this pic. Top hats for top heads...

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Ok here's a question to the people that wants to see out the front of a subway train how do you feel about the potential that you could see someone commit suicide?

 

[DSC]

Ok here's a question to the people that wants to see out the front of a subway train how do you feel about the potential that you could see someone commit suicide?

Much as you can if you are on a platform at the wrong time.

 

[smallspy]

^ So how did we ever get this far without them? And how are others more advanced doing it with no cab at all? Anyone heard of glass partitions? You know, like on the Flexities. Not in Canada you say? Pity...

And once again, you are making references to systems that were built from scratch with fully automated operation. That's not what we have here in Toronto. Apples and oranges....

As for the window behind the operator or lack there of.....how do you make all of the control circuitry and valving in the back wall of the cab see-through?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[steveintoronto]

how do you make all of the control circuitry and valving in the back wall of the cab see-through?

Gosh, that's a tough one. How about doing it the way the other examples do it? Already been pointed out in many examples prior.

Why don't you save some time and just state: "No, can't do that, because I don't like it"?

One more time:

#9,114

And yet again, you don't need the *entire* back wall of the cab to be see-through, allow the operator an opaque section on the side where he/she sits. But some can't get themselves past the present tense. The string quotations posted above are *for the future trains*. And chances are that they won't have a cab as we know it at all. Bingo! You can see through the front and back of the train again.

It ain't Rocket science...pun fully intended. Is it any wonder Toronto moves at a glacial pace compared to other progressive cities?

 

[steveintoronto]

Ok here's a question to the people that wants to see out the front of a subway train how do you feel about the potential that you could see someone commit suicide?

It pales compared to the suicidal behaviour of John Tory's 'Zero Vision'...I face the spectre every time I cross the street or cycle on roads in this city. My behaviour is suicidal just by taunting the risk...

 

[smallspy]

Gosh, that's a tough one. How about doing it the way the other examples do it? Already been pointed out in many examples prior.

And I've already pointed out why your examples are flawed.

Why don't you save some time and just state: "No, can't do that, because I don't like it"?

It has nothing to do with whether I do or I don't like it - because to be completely honest, I really don't care. My little 4 year old cousin doesn't like it - but he isn't old enough to understand much beyond "like" and "don't like".

Is it any wonder Toronto moves at a glacial pace compared to other progressive cities?

Putting front windows on our subways is preventing Toronto from being a "progressive city"? You've said a lot of silly things, but that's a bit above and beyond, don't you think?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Ok here's a question to the people that wants to see out the front of a subway train how do you feel about the potential that you could see someone commit suicide?

I think it's a good point I've never really thought about. Children are the prime individuals to be sitting at the front of a train, and in most cases on Lines 1 and 4 (because of centre platforms), a suicide would be most blatant to the person sitting in that front seat. It's traumatizing enough for the driver, probably a million times worse for a child

Much as you can if you are on a platform at the wrong time.

While true, I would think that the issue with that statement is that a platform view of a suicide is much less blatant to bystanders in most cases, the issue could also be mitigated via the use of platform screen doors. I've been on a subway platform during a suicide. It was an extremely scarring experience, and I imagine it would be a hell lot more scarring if I was sitting at the front with a front row seat of a subway train.

It pales compared to the suicidal behaviour of John Tory's 'Zero Vision'...I face the spectre every time I cross the street or cycle on roads in this city. My behaviour is suicidal just by taunting the risk...

Come on, this is extremely low, and we all know you are better than this.

No, you do not face the same situation every time you cross the street, a car is not a train. There are far more risk factors: a third rail, little to no reaction time available for the driver, a fixed path, a lot more momentum, more bystanders, slower deceleration capabilities, etc etc etc. You are diminishing the suffering that is associated with suicide, and for what? To prove that front window seats on a subway are better? For political gain? ...Why?

Your behavior is not suicidal by crossing the street, there are laws governing when you can, should, and how you should cross the street, laws everyone knows because WE DON'T WANT TO HURT ANYONE. The only way your behavior would be suicidal is by having the intention of committing suicide, and based on the way you phrased your comment, I highly doubt that is the case.

 

[Richard White]

Ok here's a question to the people that wants to see out the front of a subway train how do you feel about the potential that you could see someone commit suicide?

I've seen someone jump at Warden and I still enjoy sitting at the front of a T1 train. It was a female and she wound up under the train


People will engage in symbiosis with a train whether or not you are at the front. May as well not live in fear of it.

 

[Streety McCarface]

I've seen someone jump at Warden and I still enjoy sitting at the front of a T1 train. It was a female and she wound up under the train


People will engage in symbiosis with a train whether or not you are at the front. May as well not live in fear of it.

That's a fair stance, and it's not a reason the TTC should necessarily block off the front of the train, but at the same time, I think it's a good thing people should be mindful of when traveling, and I can understand why the TTC wouldn't want to be liable if they were caught in that situation.

 

[steveintoronto]

Putting front windows on our subways is preventing Toronto from being a "progressive city"? You've said a lot of silly things, but that's a bit above and beyond, don't you think?

Yes it's beyond me, because I didn't 'say' that. I didn't even intimate it. And I'm far from the only observer to see Toronto is a generation or more behind in transit infrastructure.

That's a fair stance, and it's not a reason the TTC should necessarily block off the front of the train, but at the same time, I think it's a good thing people should be mindful of when traveling, and I can understand why the TTC wouldn't want to be liable if they were caught in that situation.

Hey, you could also be pushed off the platform in front of an oncoming train, either by malevolence or inadvertent overcrowding on outdated platforms. This has been admitted even by the TTC, such that they've had to close stations to more passengers entering onto them at times.
Safety concerns arise after mass overcrowding on the TTC

Dangerous over-crowding on Toronto subway underlines need for

Subway crowding at crisis level | The Star - Toronto Star

Perhaps best you not travel in rush hour, and watch behind you at all times? And not look out those terrifying front windows.

I must say with some posters, the length they go to to justify their claims is highly entertaining. "Subway Auditions" take on a whole new tack...

The only way your behavior would be suicidal is by having the intention of committing suicide

It's a manner of speech, just like this:
Bus riders demand changes to 'suicide stop' - CityNews Toronto

Anything else to add as to why subway passengers shouldn't be able to see out the front or the rear of the train?

I

 

[Streety McCarface]

Yes it's beyond me, because I didn't 'say' that. I didn't even intimate it. And I'm far from the only observer to see Toronto is a generation or more behind in transit infrastructure.

Hey, you could also be pushed off the platform in front of an oncoming train, either by malevolence or inadvertent overcrowding on outdated platforms. This has been admitted even by the TTC, such that they've had to close stations to more passengers entering onto them at times.

Perhaps best you not travel in rush hour, and watch behind you at all times?

I must say with some posters, the length they go to to justify their claims is highly entertaining. "Subway Auditions" take on a whole new tack...
It's a manner of speech, just like this:
Bus riders demand changes to 'suicide stop' - CityNews Toronto

Anything else to add as to why subway passengers shouldn't be able to see out the front or the rear of the train?

I

If it wasn't your intention, then I apologize.

I don't deny that the TTC has a pretty crappy record when it comes to Suicide, and has a lot of work to do, including the installation of platform edge doors and reducing overcrowding. there's no disagreement there and there never was. However, I do understand that certain changes are not available to the TTC simply because of budgetary concerns, and that's more of an issue with council itself, who is not so keen on funding the relief line, or the installation of platform doors and station improvements. What the TTC can afford, is the installation of full cabs, which have a lot of benefits for train operators, while keeping certain aspects of train operation out of the public view. It's purely to save face for the TTC, and while I may not like it (because I do like sitting at the front), I understand why the TTC is doing it, or why they would be doing it. They can't really afford a lawsuit in the event of something horrible happening, and if it means more money that can eventually be spent on station or capital improvements, I'm completely fine with that. For the last time, I am not against allowing passengers looking out the front of the train, but I do understand the TTC's and the Union's stance on this, and am not going to argue over that because frankly, there are better things to advocate for.

 

[steveintoronto]

It's purely to save face for the TTC

Now the dialog is changing. I agree, it's down to the TTC putting vested interest ahead of greater passenger space and comfort. There is absolutely no *technical reason* for needing the front cab visually sealed from passengers. What's the fear? Terrorists? Many European systems, far more at risk than Toronto (London especially) have passenger see through on the front of some trains. I detailed the Docklands Light Railway prior. That set-up as shown, although a newer vehicle, is twenty years old. A generation! And there's no attempt to change it now even after successive bombings on the LU.

What *really* iks me is the mirror glass on the operator door into the passenger compartment from the cab on the Rockets. THAT is a sop to either the unions or TTC management. And it won't exist in the next gen of TTC trains.

If it wasn't your intention, then I apologize.

Very gracious of you, but the comment was meant for @smallspy who constantly convolutes what I've posted since he can't provide reference or links to his claims.

But getting back to that "one way mirror" It speaks volumes about the pervading mindset and the secretive unaccountable actions of the Transit Gods. How dare we ask questions, or post examples of generational progress elsewhere? Just do as you're told and show your identity number on command...

 

[Streety McCarface]

But getting back to that "one way mirror" It speaks volumes about the pervading mindset and the secretive unaccountable actions of the Transit Gods. How dare we ask questions, or post examples of generational progress elsewhere?

Fair enough.

 

[steveintoronto]

Fair enough.

We're converging on that point. To use one word to describe it, it would be "Creepy".

There's something terrifying in a dystopian sense about it. No logical argument can be made for it, save for desperate apologists reaching for reasons that don't exist.