TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[Richard White]

Only if you can see!

I find it perturbing on the newer buses not have a rear window. You pass something, wonder 'whaaa?' and can't take a gander out the back window coz there ain't one. At least they have provided them in the new streetcars, which for all their shortcomings in seating layout, allow a good view on the world.

The problem is that with low floor buses the engine MUST be at the back in order make space at the front. On the older buses (Think 2200 series) the drivetrain, was under the bus and the main combustion bits were under the window at the back of the bus. Right now, in order to make buses low floor, everything was shoved under the back seats and the back portion of the bus hence why the back is higher up.

You can have a window on the newer buses but it will not go anywhere.
.

 

[steveintoronto]

The problem is that with low floor buses the engine MUST be at the back in order make space at the front. On the older buses (Think 2200 series) the drivetrain, was under the bus and the main combustion bits were under the window at the back of the bus. Right now, in order to make buses low floor, everything was shoved under the back seats and the back portion of the bus hence why the back is higher up.

You can have a window on the newer buses but it will not go anywhere.
.

I fully understand why, I'm a tech, but I still lament the loss on *most* (but not all) buses.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I fully understand why, I'm a tech, but I still lament the loss on *most* (but not all) buses.

They have rear windows on transit buses, but not in Toronto because the penny-pinchers don't consider the public a benefit.

 

[smallspy]

What has that to do with passengers being able to see out of the front of the train?

Up to this point, not once have I commented on passengers seeing out of the front (or back) of the train. I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that I care one way or the other.

The discussion that I was involved in regarded the location of the cab, its continued existance, or its size.

Are you aware of the union mandating non-see through full width cabs for all future trains?

Mandating, no. Requesting/demanding, yes. The T1 cars were designed and built with a modified version of the original H-class cab that could also be opened full width. The union still didn't like the amount of privacy and safety it provided - while it could be opened up to be the full width of the car, there is still an open section to one side. And so the TRs were designed with that in mind.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[steveintoronto]

Up to this point, not once have I commented on passengers seeing out of the front (or back) of the train. I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that I care one way or the other.

Perhaps because that was the string of the discussion at that point, and still is?

Mandating, no. Requesting/demanding, yes.

I can see Ontario is going to be facing a lot of 'union distress' if this remains the position of the unions. I'm neither pro nor con union....but if members can't embrace the future and the change that needs to come with that, like unions in progressive nations with a higher standard of living for all, then Toronto is facing bleak times.

Some of us like to see where we're going. Odd how that works...and with that, I'm off for Christmas dinner in Guelph. By transit. (edit to clarify: To Hamilton, then driving up with friend) How progressive is that?

 

[W. K. Lis]

.... Odd how that works...and with that, I'm off for Christmas dinner in Guelph. By transit. (edit to clarify: To Hamilton, then driving up with friend) How progressive is that?

In a one-horse open sleigh?

 

[DSC]

See: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...estive-transport-around-the-world-in-pictures

 

[W. K. Lis]

See: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...estive-transport-around-the-world-in-pictures

The penny-pinchers on the TTC board, city council, and very likely, Queen's Park, would consider that joyous celibration "gravy".

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Saw a work car at Davisville Carhouse that I haven't seen before. Looks like cabs at each end, completely enclosed, black vemtilation panels/ Rail grinder? Note: there's a flatcar inbehind it, it's not part of it.

 

[smallspy]

Perhaps because that was the string of the discussion at that point, and still is?

And we're not allowed to have tangentially-related threads? No one else seemed to have any issue with it.

Saw a work car at Davisville Carhouse that I haven't seen before. Looks like cabs at each end, completely enclosed, black vemtilation panels/ Rail grinder? Note: there's a flatcar inbehind it, it's not part of it.

View attachment 168808

RT-71, tri-mode locomotive. Built by Arva Industries in St. Thomas. Uses a diesel motor, third rail or onboard battery to provide propulsion. It's been around for a couple of years, but doesn't see much use.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[lenaitch]

I wonder if, at some point in the future, an incident somewhere in the world involving a subway/transit vehicle will force a re-think back to secure operator cabs. This would be similar to what happened in the airline industry after 9/11. I realize that it is a much different operating environment.

 

[Richard White]

I wonder if, at some point in the future, an incident somewhere in the world involving a subway/transit vehicle will force a re-think back to secure operator cabs. This would be similar to what happened in the airline industry after 9/11. I realize that it is a much different operating environment.

It's possible but as technology progresses it will likely become possible to stop a train dead from a secure location (in theory you can do that now) and not endanger lives.

You can't hijack a train if does not have controls to do so.

 

[steveintoronto]

I wonder if, at some point in the future, an incident somewhere in the world involving a subway/transit vehicle will force a re-think back to secure operator cabs. This would be similar to what happened in the airline industry after 9/11. I realize that it is a much different operating environment.

That has been stated in the Wikipedia article on the Rockets :

• Full-width operator cabs located at the ends of the train for the enhanced safety and security of operating personnel. They are equipped with doorways to allow operators to access the cab unit directly from the subway platform and prevent exposure to the public while performing operating duties. The railfan window (which allows passengers to see from the front or rear of the train), present on older series trains in the emergency doorway, is replaced with a one-way mirror in the cab access door from the interior, though it is still possible to see through the window.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Rocket

New TTC train, the Rocket, takes away some of the ‘fun factor’
By OAKLAND ROSS Feature Writer TorStar
Fri., April 20, 2012
[...]
Unlike the T-1 trains, whose drivers’ cabs occupy just half the width of the car — leaving plenty of room at the bow for forward-looking kids and their indulgent parents, not to mention a real window that you can actually see through — the cabs on the new Rockets take up the entire breadth of the car, blocking forward visibility for passengers.

“That’s just the design of the new trains,” says TTC spokesman Brad Ross. “Some of the electronics meant the cabs had to be different. The fun factor, I suppose, is removed somewhat.” [...]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...rocket_takes_away_some_of_the_fun_factor.html

I dug on this all last night to find anything to do with "the union" as per the start in this sub-string discussion, found none, but did find that the platform BBD used for these vehicles was the "Movia"...and many of them don't have full-width cabs, have even more sophisticated signal and control systems, and some don't even have a cab at all.

And they have no problems as a result of that..."electronics" et al.

Addendum: The 'security' and 'operator comfort' aspects I sense are superfluous to need, more just the fancies of some in the TTC (just witness how ridiculous some of the subway stations have become as palaces of grandeur and opulence).

The one engineering aspect I can't find which might be very pertinent is 'crush zone'. The accident years back on the Spadina leg had the cab pushed back into the passenger zone, and the front of the leading vehicle badly crumpled. From looking at pics of how the front cab section is 'added on' (apparently) to the main body structure of at least the Rocket models, it could be indicative of being done for passenger safety.

That still doesn't explain the silvered one-way mirror for the door into the passenger zone and the purposeful blocking of passengers being able to look through a glass wall to the windshield for a frontal or rearward view.

 

[steveintoronto]

It's possible but as technology progresses it will likely become possible to stop a train dead from a secure location

Just as is done with the Double Decker buses. For some odd reason, the driver isn't in a sealed full width cab with a one-way silvered peer-hole. Wells Fargo trucks it ain't.

On the upside for Doug Ford...perhaps the train could be hijacked and "taken to Pickering or Markham". Oh...wait. He's already working on that.

 

[Richard White]

Just as is done with the Double Decker buses.

Personally I prefer railway blasting caps. What better way to prevent a collision than to derail a train with a small explosive charge.