TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Would the money gained by the fear factor really offset the employment costs of all those fare inspectors, though? CTV says they have no less than 110 - that is not a small amount of people to employ. If the TTC is not recovering the costs of this, I question the wisdom of having any fare inspectors at all.

There's lots of financially well off people who also don't pay fares.

Except that if you don't have fare inspectors, you'd be moving to the majority of the riders not paying. The problem here is the ineffectiveness, not the presence of a fare enforcement system.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

Except that if you don't have fare inspectors, you'd be moving to the majority of the riders not paying. The problem here is the ineffectiveness, not the presence of a fare enforcement system.

AoD

Averaging 1 ticker per week across our ~110 officers................going to zero would represent too deep a cut, but about 4, effective officers would hold us to current (inadequate) quota.

There needs to be a clear direction to enforce; but we do need to change the system to reduce the liklihood of confrontations, while deterring repeat offenders.

This is where moving to a system with a caution/warning on a first offense, provided you cooperate and supply ID etc is good move.......then a modest ticket in line with a typical parking ticket, ~$40 or such.

On a third and subsequent offense, you get a court date in front of JP with the risk of a bench warrant for your arrest if you no show, and the JP being able to lift that fine considerably and issue an enforcement order to collect it (garnishment)

 

[littlewill1166]

I think that if 30% of people aren't paying, a few more fare inspectors would probably pay for themselves through increased compliance. Though the TTC should have a department of people who could crunch the actual numbers.

I would not be surprised if more inspectors increased compliance, but I'm skeptical about increased revenue.

Here are some grey areas:

Some people take the streetcar to the subway, but don't tap on the streetcar to get a couple of extra minutes out of their 2-hour transfer. I wouldn't be surprised if these people switch to walking for part of their trip (depending on how far they are from the subway), or switch to parallel routes. It's not really worth paying a full $3.30 just to go two or three stops. It's also not really fair that someone who gets on at College has to tap to get onto the 506 streetcar, but not someone at Wellesley getting on the 94 bus.

Since OneFare was introduced, I've noticed many people on this forum talking about taking a short trip on GO to extend their transfer window from 2-hours to 5-hours.

 

[evandyk]

I would not be surprised if more inspectors increased compliance, but I'm skeptical about increased revenue.

Here are some grey areas:

Some people take the streetcar to the subway, but don't tap on the streetcar to get a couple of extra minutes out of their 2-hour transfer. I wouldn't be surprised if these people switch to walking for part of their trip (depending on how far they are from the subway), or switch to parallel routes. It's not really worth paying a full $3.30 just to go two or three stops. It's also not really fair that someone who gets on at College has to tap to get onto the 506 streetcar, but not someone at Wellesley getting on the 94 bus.

Since OneFare was introduced, I've noticed many people on this forum talking about taking a short trip on GO to extend their transfer window from 2-hours to 5-hours.

I think that's very true, but if the non-payment rate is 30%, that must include a large number of people just choosing not to pay because they don't think they'll get caught, and you can probably whittle that group down fairly efficiently.

 

[evandyk]

There needs to be a clear direction to enforce; but we do need to change the system to reduce the liklihood of confrontations, while deterring repeat offenders.

This is where moving to a system with a caution/warning on a first offense, provided you cooperate and supply ID etc is good move.......then a modest ticket in line with a typical parking ticket, ~$40 or such.

I think this is the best approach. If you really think you're at risk of getting a ticket, even a $40 one, it's a real incentive to swipe your card. If you really don't think you'll get caught, even a potential $450 ticket isn't going to motivate you. Getting your fare checked twice a week will motivate you in a way that knowing there's a theoretical huge penalty doesn't.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Except that if you don't have fare inspectors, you'd be moving to the majority of the riders not paying. The problem here is the ineffectiveness, not the presence of a fare enforcement system.

If we made the TTC free, so no collectors or inspectors, how much would the taxpayer have to make up? Of course we'd need to ensure the entire thing didn't become one big encampment.

 

[turbanplanner]

If we made the TTC free, so no collectors or inspectors, how much would the taxpayer have to make up? Of course we'd need to ensure the entire thing didn't become one big encampment.

This is ironically by far the most expensive option. The ridership recovery is 87% for local and 97% for express routes (pre covid)

Free trips would likely significantly add riders to the most expensive method to run (per passenger) if it was people will for sure run more errands, and potentially you'll have people getting on to go like 5 stops to save a walk. The TTC is already the biggest budget item and I see it going up a decent chunk if it was free.

I think that's very true, but if the non-payment rate is 30%, that must include a large number of people just choosing not to pay because they don't think they'll get caught, and you can probably whittle that group down fairly efficiently.

Remember when the police camped out with the inspectors? Suddenly a bunch of people with arrest warrants were caught! Not all fare evaders are criminals but I'm fairly certain serious criminals are very unlikely to pay. You fix evasion and safety goes up dramatically!

 

[evandyk]

Yeah, I'd rather not ride the TTC if it's crawling with cops.

 

[turbanplanner]

Yeah, I'd rather not ride the TTC if it's crawling with cops.

Good point I feel safer with stabby crack heads

 

[Admiral Beez]

Yeah, I'd rather not ride the TTC if it's crawling with cops.

I want to be with the people who are not avoiding cops.