TTC: New Fare Gate Installation

[Megaton327]

Most of first phase of new gates at Union are in place but not yet active.

Great! Union joins St George as my biggest source of irritation as someone who's had presto since 2011. Union's south turnstiles and St George's Bedford entrance have both had presto for about 7 years now, but Union's Brookfield entrance (both the old rotunda by the Bay West Teamway and the new eastern doors created with the renovation) and St George's titular St George entrance lacking it for this long are absurd...and it'll be great for certain trips within Union to be able to enter the subway from the formerly exit-only west side, especially with the current construction meaning the majority of GO access is from that side of the TTC.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

I don't think most people have figured out this yet but one doesn't have to wait for the gate doors to close before swiping or tapping to get through. Based on my usage at NYC, most people will tap/swipe once the person in front is half way through the gate (split second reaction). In a way, the gates remain open always when there is a constant flow of people going through.

As for the slow gate operation, they definitely need to be addressed. My unscientific observation is the slow operation is leading to more forced/broken gates.

On a side note, the TTC needs to get on with designating certain gates for single-direction flow.

 

[Richard White]

As for the slow gate operation, they definitely need to be addressed. My unscientific observation is the slow operation is leading to more forced/broken gates.

At Old Mill I have stepped into the sensors and stood there for a few seconds before the gates opened. There seems to be a delay and I have become more cautious since walking into a closed gate with a full coffee.

 

[Megaton327]

On a side note, the TTC needs to get on with designating certain gates for single-direction flow.

Yeah, that's absolutely a HUGE problem right now. I don't know if anyone here has made the mistake of using Dundas station since the faregates were installed on the southbound platform, but if a train arrives at the station, good luck entering the gates for about 30 seconds after that train has arrived at most times of day, as all of the gates are used by people exiting and nobody will stop to let you in. With the previous mix of some exit-only and some entry-only and some dual-mode gates, generally exiting passengers left through the exit gates in the middle as there were enough people entering on the sides.

People have tweeted Brad Ross at this and it's a rare case where he is hugely misinformed as he claimed the gates cannot be configured for enter/exit only which is absurd, as not only can they, but it's one of the reasons cited by the TTC for upgrading to them, as the feature improves crowd control as it can be configured per-gate to change between entry, exit, entry+exit, hold open, or closed, and customized to change automatically at different times of day, or be changed manually on demand.

 

[TransitBart]

Yeah, that's absolutely a HUGE problem right now. I don't know if anyone here has made the mistake of using Dundas station since the faregates were installed on the southbound platform, but if a train arrives at the station, good luck entering the gates for about 30 seconds after that train has arrived at most times of day, as all of the gates are used by people exiting and nobody will stop to let you in. With the previous mix of some exit-only and some entry-only and some dual-mode gates, generally exiting passengers left through the exit gates in the middle as there were enough people entering on the sides.

People have tweeted Brad Ross at this and it's a rare case where he is hugely misinformed as he claimed the gates cannot be configured for enter/exit only which is absurd, as not only can they, but it's one of the reasons cited by the TTC for upgrading to them, as the feature improves crowd control as it can be configured per-gate to change between entry, exit, entry+exit, hold open, or closed, and customized to change automatically at different times of day, or be changed manually on demand.

Ah...this must tie to the story of the control software being somehow not able to keep track of so many gates...probably possible another feature that can’t be unlocked until the control software is fixed.

 

[mdrejhon]

I don't think most people have figured out this yet but one doesn't have to wait for the gate doors to close before swiping or tapping to get through. Based on my usage at NYC, most people will tap/swipe once the person in front is half way through the gate (split second reaction). In a way, the gates remain open always when there is a constant flow of people going through.

As for the slow gate operation, they definitely need to be addressed. My unscientific observation is the slow operation is leading to more forced/broken gates.

On a side note, the TTC needs to get on with designating certain gates for single-direction flow.

I tap immediately after the person ahead, regardless of reader. You don't have to wait for the reader lights to go out, before doing your tap.

They should improve visual feedback (for a deafie) so that the green light flashes OFF-then-ON if the next tap is done while the light is still on.

Ah...this must tie to the story of the control software being somehow not able to keep track of so many gates...probably possible another feature that can’t be unlocked until the control software is fixed.

Interesting! So the ability to reconfigure gates for enter-only, exit-only and enter/exit is simply a software deployment issue that needs to be fixed.

Meaning, a feature not available yet, but one that will be available later, with a future software upgrade.

Echoing @Megaton327, my friend observed people going through the gates at Kipling without paying. They don't wait for the gates to close (and open slowly again) so they just sneak through after the person ahead has paid.

In many countries, including Japan, they intentionally make the fare gates "deep" -- the tap card reader is very far in front of the gates. This discourages this kind of tailgating, as the sensors have more time to react in the time interval between the tap and the entry.

 

[Megaton327]

Union gate installation progress: the gates that have replaced the former west exit-only full-height gates are all installed and powered on. The couple of gates in the north fare line nearest the collector's booth are partially installed. The ones at the north formerly exit-only location, west of the proper fare line, are fully installed but not yet powered.

 

[Student99]

Great! Union joins St George as my biggest source of irritation as someone who's had presto since 2011. ... St George's titular St George entrance lacking it for this long are absurd....

THIS. Seriously! For such an important station (the intersection of two lines), one would think that this would be one of the first stations to get the new gates.
And honestly, it peeves me the order that they're doing it at St George too. Bedford already had a Presto reader, so why not start the gate installation with the St George side?! Honestly, wouldn't it be smarter to get as much of the station accessible by Presto as soon as possible?! And why is the OISE entrance getting done sooner than the St George side too? That gets less traffic than the St George side. Wouldn't the TTC want to benefit the greatest number of people sooner? UGH so sick of carrying tokens

 

[Megaton327]

THIS. Seriously! For such an important station (the intersection of two lines), one would think that this would be one of the first stations to get the new gates.
And honestly, it peeves me the order that they're doing it at St George too. Bedford already had a Presto reader, so why not start the gate installation with the St George side?! Honestly, wouldn't it be smarter to get as much of the station accessible by Presto as soon as possible?! And why is the OISE entrance getting done sooner than the St George side too? That gets less traffic than the St George side. Wouldn't the TTC want to benefit the greatest number of people sooner? UGH so sick of carrying tokens

It's sad that they still don't even know when they'll START construction at St George, let alone when it'll be done. I'm calling it, that'll be the last entrance in the system to even have Presto, never mind gates.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Union Station:
Brookfield

Northwest

West

 

[Leo_Chan]

You can't really see it, but in the second photo, the farthest most fare gate is right next to the stairs down to the University platform. I foresee some people flow issues at that location and may need to disable that gate.

 

[Neil]

These gates seem like such overkill. Why not just presto readers? That's all there is on buses and streetcars. Same with GO transit. What is it about subways stations that the transit user suddenly becomes untrustworthy?

 

[Leo_Chan]

These gates seem like such overkill. Why not just presto readers? That's all there is on buses and streetcars. Same with GO transit. What is it about subways stations that the transit user suddenly becomes untrustworthy?

Are you suggesting to remove the "fare paid area" idea completely, and having fare inspectors on every bus, streetcar, and subway train (each individual car)?

 

[Neil]

Are you suggesting to remove the "fare paid area" idea completely, and having fare inspectors on every bus, streetcar, and subway train (each individual car)?

In truth its not a fare paid area anymore. Its a POP area. Once the bus and streetcar system became POP, so did the subway since you enter the subway system via the that method. Also these gates are easily hurdled. As to putting inspectors on every vehicle, no I don't think I wrote that, though there's probably a sweet spot in that area between the resources applied to it and the income it generates.

 

[Richard White]

These gates seem like such overkill. Why not just presto readers? That's all there is on buses and streetcars. Same with GO transit. What is it about subways stations that the transit user suddenly becomes untrustworthy?

Even in London, one of the largest and most complex transit systems in the world they still have paddle gates. The reasoning is simple, crowd control. If a station is on fire, someone rebounds off the front of a train or there is some other issue, you do not want people just being able to waltz into the situation.

If a system like TFL uses paddle gates, there must be a reason for it as they are far more advanced than we are when it comes to transit tech.