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TTC: New Fare Gate Installation

amnesiajune said:
I saw the weirdest thing today at Sheppard-Yonge. Two of the automatic entrances are under construction and have temporary collector boxes. I walked in at one of them and there was an employee in the red information vest. He wasn't collecting fares; he was telling people that there was no collector on duty and they could just walk in for free because the fare box was locked up.
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Not surprised. When the Spadina second entrance was being worked on there often wasn't an attendant there at all. Free rides for all.
 
amnesiajune said:
The TTC inspires very little of that confidence, and this sort of thing - not an entrance with no collector, but someone being paid to stand there and tell people not to pay their fare - reduces that miniscule confidence that the public has in the TTC's ability to use funding effectively.
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Good grief, look at the published data.

It's got to be the most cost-effective AND least subsidized system in Canada and the USA. If that doesn't inspire confidence in someone, they may need medication!

(I joke about the meds, because we are getting into the grass is always greener syndrome. Everyone talks about how bad their transit is. Even the ones we look up to like London and New York - though why anyone looks up at New York I don't know ... and FFS, look at where London was before Transport for London took over in 2000, with devolution from control by the UK government. It's not until you start trying to use other legacy systems that you realize how well TTC actually does with so little.)
 
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nfitz said:
Good grief, look at the published data.

It's got to be the most cost-effective AND least subsidized system in Canada and the USA. If that doesn't inspire confidence in someone, they may need medication!

(I joke about the meds, because we are getting into the grass is always greener syndrome. Everyone talks about how bad their transit is. Even the ones we look up to like London and New York - though why anyone looks up at New York I don't know ... and FFS, look at where London was before Transport for London took over in 2000, with devolution from control by the UK government. It's not until you start trying to use other legacy systems that you realize how well TTC actually does with so little.)
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Considering that New York is run by the state and only the state, they do quite well with what they have. It's a political mess there, even worse than here. Hopefully, Andy Byford will be able to cope with it. (Also, the trains on the New York Subway are great, with the exception of the R160As & R142s (terrible traction motors), and considering that they've kept the R32s for 55 years (which are arguably the greatest subway cars ever created), they deserve maintenance credit).

It really is not a big deal considering it's a transition state and the fact that no one can do anything because of union rules. At least it sort of incentivizes the people to use the TTC.
 
Streety McCarface said:
It really is not a big deal considering it's a transition state ...
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Transition state implies it's turn the corner, and is improving (like Toronto, and London before it).

New York seems to be getting worse to me. Bus ridership has been declining since 2002, which surely is from unnecessary service cuts.

And while subway ridership has risen, my own observations is more delays. I haven't delved into it. But this is from the NYC website. No sign of it bottoming out.

mta_chart13.jpg
 
cplchanb said:
that reporter also said that the finch turnstyles would be replaced starting next week. accurate info??
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From TTC website:

Finch Station - main entrance
Start date: January 8, 2018

  • The construction will be done in two phases. Customers will enter the station through the collector booth aisle or through a temporary station collector entrance
  • PRESTO card readers will be available for PRESTO card customers during both phases of construction.
North automatic entrance
Start date: January 10, 2018

Approximate end date: Mid-March 2018

  • This entrance will be closed from 11 p.m. on January 10 until the middle of March 2018.
  • When construction is complete customers will only be able to access this entrance by TTC Pass or PRESTO card.
  • Customers paying by tickets, tokens or cash must use the main entrance.
East automatic entrance
Start date: January 15, 2018

Approximate end date: end of March 2018

  • This entrance will be closed from 11 p.m. on January 15 until the end of March 2018.
  • When construction is complete customers will only be able to access this entrance by TTC Pass or PRESTO card.
  • Customers paying by tickets, tokens or cash must use the main entrance.
Pemberton automatic entrance
Start date: January 18, 2018

Approximate end date: end of March 2018

  • This entrance will be closed from 11 p.m. on January 18 until the end of March 2018.
  • When construction is complete customers will only be able to access this entrance by TTC Pass or PRESTO card.
  • Customers paying by tickets, tokens or cash must use the main entrance.
To purchase a PRESTO card visit the Gateway Newstand in Finch Station.
 
Streety McCarface said:
NO!!! The turnstiles are now pretty much gone, despite being the best fare barrier.
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Standing at the western entrance to Spadina station with my Metropass and discovering it's now Presto-only I tried to figure out how to get through the new fare barriers - and various tricks didn't work, including dangling the bag on the other side in front of the sensor, and trying to get through as someone came the other way. (I figured at worst, I couldn't be charged with much, given I had the Metropass in my hand).

You could always go under the old turnstiles if you had no dignity (and I don't). You can't with these.

Why do you think the old turnstiles were better?

(or are you referring to those old very tall one-way barriers, that were so utterly ugly?)
 
nfitz said:
Standing at the western entrance to Spadina station with my Metropass and discovering it's now Presto-only I tried to figure out how to get through the new fare barriers - and various tricks didn't work, including dangling the bag on the other side in front of the sensor, and trying to get through as someone came the other way. (I figured at worst, I couldn't be charged with much, given I had the Metropass in my hand).

You could always go under the old turnstiles if you had no dignity (and I don't). You can't with these.

Why do you think the old turnstiles were better?

(or are you referring to those old very tall one-way barriers, that were so utterly ugly?)
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Both, the manual ones were quicker to get through (you didn't have to stop and wait for the sensor), and the tall ones prevented fare evasion
 
nfitz said:
You could always go under the old turnstiles if you had no dignity (and I don't). You can't with these.

Why do you think the old turnstiles were better?
Click to expand...

Streety McCarface said:
Both, the manual ones were quicker to get through (you didn't have to stop and wait for the sensor), and the tall ones prevented fare evasion
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This needs to be said for the thousandth time:

1. Nearly every fare gate has some way to break through it. If it doesn't, it's annoying to many other people (try using the tall gates if you have a stroller or a bike, are carrying something bigger than a purse or walk with a cane)

2. Most people who jump the fare gates wouldn't be paying for transit in any circumstances. If there was a barrier that made it impossible for them to get through without paying, they just wouldn't take transit. This is why the TTC loses very little revenue from fare evasion - most fare evasion is done by people who wouldn't be a source of revenue no matter what the TTC does.
 
amnesiajune said:
This needs to be said for the thousandth time:

1. Nearly every fare gate has some way to break through it. If it doesn't, it's annoying to many other people (try using the tall gates if you have a stroller or a bike, are carrying something bigger than a purse or walk with a cane)

2. Most people who jump the fare gates wouldn't be paying for transit in any circumstances. If there was a barrier that made it impossible for them to get through without paying, they just wouldn't take transit. This is why the TTC loses very little revenue from fare evasion - most fare evasion is done by people who wouldn't be a source of revenue no matter what the TTC does.
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Agreed, also if/when we have to tap out of the subway (as in London) you can be caught both entering and leaving the fare paid areas.
 
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amnesiajune said:
This needs to be said for the thousandth time:

1. Nearly every fare gate has some way to break through it. If it doesn't, it's annoying to many other people (try using the tall gates if you have a stroller or a bike, are carrying something bigger than a purse or walk with a cane)

2. Most people who jump the fare gates wouldn't be paying for transit in any circumstances. If there was a barrier that made it impossible for them to get through without paying, they just wouldn't take transit. This is why the TTC loses very little revenue from fare evasion - most fare evasion is done by people who wouldn't be a source of revenue no matter what the TTC does.
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3. The solution is more fare inspections with mandatory $300 fines for evasion.
 
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