TTC: New Articulated Buses (In Delivery, Novabus)

[TheTigerMaster]

Hmm... still not looking any more attractive

 

[jaycola]

/Worlds-largest-bus-AutoTram-Extra-Grand-trialled-Dresden-Germanyl

World's longest bus: Debuted in Germany, the megabus AutoTram Extra Grand is nearly 101ft long and can carry 256 passengers

Maybe we build the subway to Steeles and Viva should get these for the Yonge extension north of Steeles on a dedicated busway? At $1.25M per unit it looks like a bargain.

 

[rbt]

At $1.25M per unit it looks like a bargain.

Maybe.

Worth keeping in mind is the LRT trains on Finch/Sheppard target 500 passengers per train. So from an operations standpoint the buses require double the number of drivers.

Similarly, you get 30 years out of a similarly sized tram. TTC's last experience with articulated buses wasn't very good (major problems at 5 years).

If the bus is well made (German implies it should be) then you should get the standard 12 to 15 years out of that bus; so $2.5M for a 30 year lifespan.

Obviously you save on the rails and overhead but an underground connection will require increased ventilation (diesel), slightly more roadway width (human driver, no tracks) and sizeable loops for short-turns.


If you keep the dedicated lanes, capacity of 500 passengers per 5 minutes, and underground connections with platforms; a BRT like that would still likely be within 10% of the cost of LRT over a 30 year time frame.

I would really like to have Metrolinx cost this option, if not for Toronto (politically difficult situation) then for any future mid-capacity corridors which are not yet funded.

 

[BurlOak]

What is the capacity of the TTC buses - about 50 or 60? If this was used on Sheppard East or Finch West, they could increase frequency from 60 seconds to 4 minutes. Lets use those LRT dollars towards either a grade separated Eglinton from YYZ to Malvern, OR, to start the DRL.

 

[ssiguy2]

Well obviously buses like that are meant for true BRT like Ottawa or L.A.

Apparently those new Dresden buses are quite easy to drive and don't have the sway that many articulated buses do. They also don't have the large cushion effect of other large buses where a bump at the front of the bus becomes a rollercoaster at the end of the bus.

Those buses would be very effective along Finch or Sheppard East instead of the LRT that will cost a fortune to build, take forever to implement, and will create havoc during construction. Just paint the centre lane a different colour, add bus stations, and priority lighting and you have BRT as fast as the LRT at a tenth the price with the same capacity and yet more reliable as they can negotiate any construction/accident along the route unlike LRT.

 

[cplchanb]

from what i understand
under the current ontario regs this bus wont even be allowed to set foot in the province. a shame really to the many draconian laws...

 

[jaycola]

I'd like to see the TTC buy a fleet of buses for a test Bus rapid transit route. Pick one of the proposed LRT routes and implement it as BRT. I'd like to see a real results in turn around time, carrying capacity and economic efficiency.

 

[ShonTron]

Probably no more odd than any other transit bus you see on 401 between Toronto and Montreal, that's being driven from the factory. I've seen these a few times ... though not in the last 2-3 years now I think about it. If I remember correctly they tended to be in packs of 2 or 3.

When I lived in North York, I had a pretty nice view of the 401 and would see OC Transpo buses en route to Ottawa from New Flyer and Orion. It's not uncommon. Back when Orion had their Mississauga plant, there were some strange sightings - I remember seeing Metrobus (DC) and MTA Bus (NYC) on city streets, perhaps for testing.

 

[kEiThZ]

What is the capacity of the TTC buses - about 50 or 60? If this was used on Sheppard East or Finch West, they could increase frequency from 60 seconds to 4 minutes. Lets use those LRT dollars towards either a grade separated Eglinton from YYZ to Malvern, OR, to start the DRL.

Exaclty what I've been saying along. Billion dollar LRTs into Malvern are a waste. I say that as somebody resident there. Better bus service to a Bloor-Danforth connection at STC is what everybody really wants.

 

[BurlOak]

from what i understand
under the current ontario regs this bus wont even be allowed to set foot in the province. a shame really to the many draconian laws...

This is a Provincial Regulation, so the Province would have no excuse in not changing it, if they actually wanted to use these buses.

 

[nfitz]

from what i understand
under the current ontario regs this bus wont even be allowed to set foot in the province. a shame really to the many draconian laws...

What are you referring to? The bus is already in Toronto, with photographs of it en route in the GTA.

And what regulation stops this bus, that doesn't stop all the other buses of the same model, that other GTA agencies use?

 

[doady]

What are you referring to? The bus is already in Toronto, with photographs of it en route in the GTA.

And what regulation stops this bus, that doesn't stop all the other buses of the same model, that other GTA agencies use?

I think he's referring to double artic pictured above.

 

[cplchanb]

What are you referring to? The bus is already in Toronto, with photographs of it en route in the GTA.

And what regulation stops this bus, that doesn't stop all the other buses of the same model, that other GTA agencies use?

i was referring to the white German double articulated bus aka the road train which is from my understanding currently no allowed because it exceeds the maximum allowable length

 

[EnviroTO]

from what i understand
under the current ontario regs this bus wont even be allowed to set foot in the province. a shame really to the many draconian laws...

Every vehicle in the province is expected to meet certain standards from high-mounted tail lights and metric guages to vehicle envelope to environmental protections to crash safety based on vehicle class. Seeing as this new extra long bus didn't exist until now is it any surprise that current law doesn't allow it on the street? There has likely never been a request to drive it in Ontario. "Draconian laws" don't allow the Bombardier CSeries to carry passengers yet either. The Autotram Extra Grand was only in prototype last year. There are triple articulated buses being used in the developing world that honestly you wouldn't want on Ontario streets because of their build quality and the way they handle turns. This bus looks engineered to have the trailers follow the path of the leader very closely on sharp curves compared to some other buses out there, but that doesn't mean you could make some generic law that all buses this long are appropriate for Ontario roadways.

 

[drum118]

Don't expect to see these buses on the road this year since they have been delay to 2014 due to production problems.

Not sure if 9000 is still here being tested or been sent back to the factory.