TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[DSC]

I keep on hearing the CLRVs will last to 2024 from some sources, Drum even said it.

Clearly you should not believe everything you read on UT, here is the 'retirement' schedule from the January 2019 CEO's Report: (which may or may not be believable!)

 

[pstogios]

You gotta feel bad for Byford, having to deal with Bombardier everywhere he goes.

If only the Canadian government didn’t play politics and bail this basket case of a company out over and over and over again. The free market would bury them in a heartbeat, and they deserve it.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Clearly you should not believe everything you read on UT, here is the 'retirement' schedule from the January 2019 CEO's Report: (which may or may not be believable!)
View attachment 172493

RIP CLRV 1977-2019. You served us well.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

If only the Canadian government didn’t play politics and bail this basket case of a company out over and over and over again. The free market would bury them in a heartbeat, and they deserve it.

Yes, the government is just handshaking and spoon feeding Bombardier everytime they get bailed out. That's what I think.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

4523 doing in service 501 test and ahead of 4522.

 

[nfitz]

Clearly you should not believe everything you read on UT, here is the 'retirement' schedule from the January 2019 CEO's Report: (which may or may not be believable!)
View attachment 172493

Also, the budget report last week said that "Our oldest streetcars are now over 40 years old and will be completely removed from service by 2021" and that they plan to "Purchase streetcars on a schedule that uses economies of scale to reduce purchase price per vehicle. This involves completing the current purchase of 204 streetcars, plus approximately 100 additional streetcars from 2025 to 2028 to meet demand, at a cost of $510 million". On the following page it notes that the new streetcars will "reduce needs for buses" between 2025 and 2026 allowing for "More frequent streetcar service at peak times on key routes".

The detailed breakdown of fleet size shows that it will be around 240 in 2019 (with about 180 cars in service) increasing to about 248 in 2020 (with 190 or so in service), but dropping to 204 cars between 2021 and 2024 with only about 155 cars in service, despite a demand for about 165 cars.

Not much indication in the budget, that there'll be any CLRVs or ALRVs left by 2021 - other than museum pieces ...

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Also, the budget report last week said that "Our oldest streetcars are now over 40 years old and will be completely removed from service by 2021" and that they plan to "Purchase streetcars on a schedule that uses economies of scale to reduce purchase price per vehicle. This involves completing the current purchase of 204 streetcars, plus approximately 100 additional streetcars from 2025 to 2028 to meet demand, at a cost of $510 million". On the following page it notes that the new streetcars will "reduce needs for buses" between 2025 and 2026 allowing for "More frequent streetcar service at peak times on key routes".

The detailed breakdown of fleet size shows that it will be around 240 in 2019 (with about 180 cars in service) increasing to about 248 in 2020 (with 190 or so in service), but dropping to 204 cars between 2021 and 2024 with only about 155 cars in service, despite a demand for about 165 cars.

Not much indication in the budget, that there'll be any CLRVs or ALRVs left by 2021 - other than museum pieces ...

View attachment 172580

I can't tell who is right, you or @DSC.

 

[nfitz]

I can't tell who is right, you or @DSC.

We are both right surely. TTC keeps saying 2019, 2020, and 2021 in various places. There's multiple recent references (though one could argue the CEO report reflects the current plan, and the budget papers reflect a future plan, council has yet to approve).

The bigger question though is, you said you keep hearing 2024. Where is this from?

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

We are both right surely. TTC keeps saying 2019, 2020, and 2021 in various places. There's multiple recent references (though one could argue the CEO report reflects the current plan, and the budget papers reflect a future plan, council has yet to approve).

The biggest question though is, you said you keep hearing 2024. Where is this from?

2024 date for CLRVs has been coming from many sources. But, still the CLRVs really did serve us well.

 

[nfitz]

2024 date for CLRVs has been coming from many sources.

What sources. Both DSC and I linked current sources for 2019 to 2021. I haven't seen a mid-2020s date for years, and that was supposed the be peak-only ALRVs on 504, which has died now for multiple reasons.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

What sources. Both DSC and I linked current sources for 2019 to 2021. I haven't seen a mid-2020s date for years, and that was supposed the be peak-only ALRVs on 504, which has died now for multiple reasons.

Ah, well then, no CLRVs in 2020s.

 

[drum118]

What sources. Both DSC and I linked current sources for 2019 to 2021. I haven't seen a mid-2020s date for years, and that was supposed the be peak-only ALRVs on 504, which has died now for multiple reasons.

2024/25 dates for the end of the CLRV has been around for years and has been used at TTC meetings. As for written dates, can't give you a link.

If a true new ridership growth every surface for the city, you will find TTC will need more than 100 extra cars currently plan by 2030.

As for the ALRV's, still surprised they are still around when there is only about 12 left and you may see 5 out on a good day.

I said in 2005 and still do to TTC today, not doing a 1:1 was a huge mistake and not only is it going to bite you in the ass, we will continue to see a cattle car service system. The bean counter thought the 204 was the best way to get a new fleet sooner than later.

4002 arrived Dec 27, 1977 and the other Swiss cars in 1978. Did have a list at one time telling what years the other cars were built, but no idea where it is. Thunder Bay produced almost yearly 95 cars a year when the fleet was being built in Thunder Bay.

No idea why 4522 & 4524 not CPS at this time when there is only 8 cars in the service bay and 23 out in the yard a few hours ago when 4523 left for testing. Its been out almost 24 hours daily since testing starting and this could be its last day of testing before going into service around Friday.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

2024/25 dates for the end of the CLRV has been around for years and has been used at TTC meetings. As for written dates, can't give you a link.

If a true new ridership growth every surface for the city, you will find TTC will need more than 100 extra cars currently plan by 2030.

As for the ALRV's, still surprised they are still around when there is only about 12 left and you may see 5 out on a good day.

I said in 2005 and still do to TTC today, not doing a 1:1 was a huge mistake and not only is it going to bite you in the ass, we will continue to see a cattle car service system. The bean counter thought the 204 was the best way to get a new fleet sooner than later.

4002 arrived Dec 27, 1977 and the other Swiss cars in 1978. Did have a list at one time telling what years the other cars were built, but no idea where it is. Thunder Bay produced almost yearly 95 cars a year when the fleet was being built in Thunder Bay.

No idea why 4522 & 4524 not CPS at this time when there is only 8 cars in the service bay and 23 out in the yard a few hours ago when 4523 left for testing. Its been out almost 24 hours daily since testing starting and this could be its last day of testing before going into service around Friday.

I mean, no ALRVs have gone into service for two weeks. Have no idea how the ALRV fleet is still surviving, back on topic, with 4523's in service test today, assuming it will see service Thurs-Sat, not placing my bets on it,

 

[nfitz]

2024/25 dates for the end of the CLRV has been around for years and has been used at TTC meetings. As for written dates, can't give you a link.

Certainly there are historic references to this - at least before the ALRV rebuild went south.

But who has said it recently?

 

[rbt]

What sources. Both DSC and I linked current sources for 2019 to 2021. I haven't seen a mid-2020s date for years, and that was supposed the be peak-only ALRVs on 504, which has died now for multiple reasons.

I suspect maintenance says they're effectively dead now (which they are on many days) and service planning says they'll be around longer as they don't have much else to work with.