drum118
Superstar
Waiting for CP to pick it up. Could be here by Thursday.
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Steve X
Senior Member
Maybe will see 4440 arrive early like 4435 did. 4437 entered service around 10 days similar to the ones earlier this year. Hopefully it won't take over 3 weeks like 4435 did.
It was early September when BBD delivered the 8th car of the year in 2016.
It was early September when BBD delivered the 8th car of the year in 2016.
drum118
Superstar
If TTC is to have 2 cars this month, then 4438 has to be ship from Thunder Bay between June 20-24. As to when TTC will received it, is all up to CP. I guess 4435 wasn't important to CP as well generating revenue like other cars that replace 4435 in route.
BBD has meet their schedule so far and will have to wait until Oct to see if they maintain it as plan. The last 4 months of the year will be the tell tail for the plan for the remaining schedule.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I manged to catch 4437 today on 514 Chery .
drum118
Superstar
Wake me up when in another 2 years or so when we don't see these issues. #60 car will be 2 years late than plan.
Bombardier streetcars likely to miss reliability target
Bombardier streetcars likely to miss reliability target
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I think this article is a lot of sound a fury signifying nothing. Mostly it talks about minor problems that are being dealt with as they crop up. The Toronto Rockets had problems when thy first were rolled out. The T1's probably did. I would even bet that all the secretaries of H cars and even the G series of cars had problems. Having problems with anew transit vehicle isn't new. I think people need to give this issue a rest. The TTC has made the decision to buy the cars from Bombardier and nothing short of an extreme catastrophic failure or them not being able to deliver all the vehicles by the end of 2019 will change anything.
books
Active Member
Exactly. Bad news sells newspapers.
By the way, your posts are a lot more coherent lately, kudos!
yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
Could imagine if the TTC did something like this:
DSC
Superstar
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Frankly, no.
Megaton327
Senior Member
The contract specifies a MDBF of 35,000km. If the cars only attain 5000, 6000, or 34,999km MDBF, that is a breach of contract. It's nice that you consider them "minor problems", and that having problems with new transit vehicles is an established thing, but if the contract says 35,000km MDBF, that's what needs to happen, period.
books
Active Member
We should wait until the 6oth vehicle is delivered and see if there is a significant decrease in the MTBF (this would include the refitted cars in the stats). If there is not a significant decrease in MTBF should the TTC reject the vehicles and give the anti-streetcar crowd (aka the Ford family) more ammunition? Or should the TTC work with Bombardier to get the issues resolved? It was a TTC engineer who told the Star reporter that refits are needed, fair enough. I say let Bombardier do the refits and then check the performance of the refitted cars and also of the entire fleet of Flexities.
My concern is that there are people like the Fords who hate streetcars and if we start giving them the ammunition they need they may just succeed in paving over our streetcar network. Performance of this new fleet of streetcars is important but so is public perception. CityTV and the Star have both reported on the MTBF problem but we really need to put a more positive spin on this or we risk throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Unless you've seen the contract, you don't know what the exact process is for handling failure to perform. As Metrolinx recently discovered in court, you can't just say "it's over, we're done here" if there are negotiation clauses which kick in.
Megaton327
Senior Member
I never said anything remotely to the effect that I knew the exact process for handling such a failure. I simply stated that a failure is a failure, i.e. if 35,000km MDBF is not met by the 60th car, then that is a failure by BBD to meet the contract terms, as I said "a breach of contract"--the contract specifies a minimum 35,000km MDBF by the 60th car.
The person I was replying to, in my best interpretation, seemed to be stating that if by the 60th car the 35,000km MDBF is not met, that's absolutely fine and we should just accept it and not pursue it further. Needless to say, I firmly disagree, and it's not a matter of personal opinion as the contract states the 35,000km figure is, in fact, a firm requirement.
Steve X
Senior Member
I wonder how many percent of the door issues are caused by riders trying to squeeze in at the very last second oppose to failure simply bad assembly or engineering issues. Either way BBD didn't design the doors well enough for the typical TTC rider.
35,000 km MDBF is really low for a rail product compared to subway products which reaches over 1,000,000 km MDBF. Yes a streetcar open's it's doors many more times than a subway as well as more braking and acceleration.
Don't tell the Ford's but the average TTC bus fleet reached 16,972 km MDBF and is 3 times more reliable than the new streetcars. I suspect the new Novas (once teething issues are fixed) are at 25,000 to 30,000 km with the older fleet and hybrids lowering the average. The bus fleet improved over the 2 years from roughly 5,000 km MDBF which implies it was a major TTC problem and not the bus manufacture's fault for such low MDBF average. I don't think it's a major TTC problem for the streetcars through.
35,000 km MDBF is really low for a rail product compared to subway products which reaches over 1,000,000 km MDBF. Yes a streetcar open's it's doors many more times than a subway as well as more braking and acceleration.
Don't tell the Ford's but the average TTC bus fleet reached 16,972 km MDBF and is 3 times more reliable than the new streetcars. I suspect the new Novas (once teething issues are fixed) are at 25,000 to 30,000 km with the older fleet and hybrids lowering the average. The bus fleet improved over the 2 years from roughly 5,000 km MDBF which implies it was a major TTC problem and not the bus manufacture's fault for such low MDBF average. I don't think it's a major TTC problem for the streetcars through.
crs1026
Superstar
TTC officials who have been quoted on the maintenance issues have taken pains to send a positive tone. The root causes sound known and fixable. Bombardier is cooperating. Sounds like this will work itself out and/or the contract will kick in eventually. No reason to knee jerk this one.
- Paul
- Paul