TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[cplchanb]

The report linked in this Steve Munro post supports LilRedDave's reading - there are pantos added but unless the default config was no trolley poles, then there is no deletion. https://stevemunro.ca/2014/02/23/ttc-board-meeting-preview-february-24-2014/

Its shocking how archaic TTC was even up until 2014. Whose bright idea was it to believe that they could still be fine with 1930s tech when the rest of the world uses another more recent standard?
Either that or they completely forgot about....Hopefully that person is no longer working in the procurement dept. God knows what they missed on other contracts and how many extras were incurred

 

[W. K. Lis]

Its shocking how archaic TTC was even up until 2014. Whose bright idea was it to believe that they could still be fine with 1930s tech when the rest of the world uses another more recent standard?
Either that or they completely forgot about....Hopefully that person is no longer working in the procurement dept. God knows what they missed on other contracts and how many extras were incurred

Wonder if the TTC buses still have hand cranks to start them?

 

[Steve X]

The TTC will have a backup power collector for all streetcars? Nice!

 

[dowlingm]

4433 from Sunday:

 

[DSCToronto]

Its shocking how archaic TTC was even up until 2014. Whose bright idea was it to believe that they could still be fine with 1930s tech when the rest of the world uses another more recent standard?
Either that or they completely forgot about....Hopefully that person is no longer working in the procurement dept. God knows what they missed on other contracts and how many extras were incurred

This article from TransitToronto may explain:

Why did the TTC wait so long before converting its streetcar network to pantograph use?

Before 2014, the cost-benefit analysis of the change suggested that the benefits did not outweigh the costs. Pantograph operation has a number of advantages over trolley pole operation: it's significantly more reliable, for one thing. Pantographs do not dewire nearly as easily as trolley poles do. Pantographs are also able to deliver more power to the streetcar or light rail transit vehicle.

However, it would have cost a lot of money to change the TTC's streetcar network to pantograph operation, as pantograph catenary is different from typical overhead streetcar wire. The two systems aren't automatically compatible; you cannot just raise a pantograph against an old trolley wire and expect it to work flawlessly. Typical trolley wire may be too frail for the heavy duty pantographs to operate, and pantograph catenary usually strung so that it shifts from side to side, so as to not wear a groove into the metal surface of the pantograph. Also, there are no frogs in pantograph catenary "switches", and major consideration is also given to the interference between the more complicated pantograph catenary with TTC and city signage (e.g. crosswalks, etc).

Mark Brader also notes that another issue on the TTC's mind may have been the fact that streetcars were being operated alongside trolley buses in Toronto until 1993. Trolley buses require trolley poles so they can flexibly connect with the trolley wires (can anybody picture a pantograph for a trolley bus?). Although cities such as San Francisco and Edmonton have shown that pantograph and trolley wires can intersect, the intersections are a lot more complicated affairs.

Either way, it would have taken a lot of time and effort to make the switch before 2014, and the TTC had limited resources and other projects demanding their attention. However, today, with the new Flexities replacing the old streetcars, the cost-benefit analysis of making such a change shifts. If there is any time to make the change, it's now, and the TTC has already converted much of its overhead wire network to allow for pantograph operation, in such a way that the older trolley poles can still operate. The system will be fully pantograph-ready by 2019."

From: http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4002.shtml

 

[drum118]

Anyone else noticed that 4433 has been spending most of its time in the service bay than out for testing since its arrival???

The few times I have check 4433, it shows being in the service bay areas. Have seen it 3 times out for testing on St Clair and 2 of them have been short time frame.

Allowing 10 days for for inspection and testing, the car should be ready for service April 3nd, but doesn't look like it will meet that date.

By the looks of things, TTC has put the conversion of the Overhead for pans on the back burner since there are numerous locations and intersection still not finish off or converted to get the cars to/from 509 & 510. Richmond is only partly rewire after rebuilding the track and road.

There been a few CLRV's on 510 this past week, let alone 509.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

There been a few CLRV's on 510 this past week, let alone 509.

I wonder if they are putting some in service on them so they can avoid having the flexs operate too many hours before they need to. That being said 4400 and 4403 seem to be out the most.

By the looks of things, TTC has put the conversion of the Overhead for pans on the back burner since there are numerous locations and intersection still not finish off or converted to get the cars to/from 509 & 510. Richmond is only partly rewire after rebuilding the track and road.

I asked Brad Ross on Twitter and he said they are aiming for sometime by the end of the year to start using the pans. I wonder if they put the wiring conversion on hold during thew winter so they could deal with any potential problems with the current system.

 

[drum118]

I wonder if they are putting some in service on them so they can avoid having the flexs operate too many hours before they need to. That being said 4400 and 4403 seem to be out the most.



I asked Brad Ross on Twitter and he said they are aiming for sometime by the end of the year to start using the pans. I wonder if they put the wiring conversion on hold during thew winter so they could deal with any potential problems with the current system.

With the spares to come in April, TTC could reduce the number of new cars in service to cut back on service hours, but it would mean going against the plan to have lines 100% new cars. 509 & 510 are supposed to be 100% new cars last year to the point 510 was to be on August 31, 2014. 511 is supposed to be now, but yet to see cars. 514 is supposed to have 10 cars come May, but not going to make it.

I noticed the last few days, the doors are a lot slower to open and close on various cars to the point riders are pushing buttons to open them.

4433 is currently sitting in the yard either waiting other work or parts; more testing or to go into service on Fool day. Since I haven't follow it daily, its hard to say if all the burn in mileage has been done, considering when I have seen it on the map, it has been in the service bay regardless the time of day.

As for pans, its getting push back more and more likely due to cash flow for the work that could be used better elsewhere at this time. System was to be 100% converted last year.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I noticed the last few days, the doors are a lot slower to open and close on various cars to the point riders are pushing buttons to open them.

I believe that's actually because of a few drivers trying to encourage people to use the buttons to open the doors as it keeps the doors that don't need to be opened closed at the les busy stops so they don't have cold or warm air rushing into the car at every stop.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

With the spares to come in April, TTC could reduce the number of new cars in service to cut back on service hours, but it would mean going against the plan to have lines 100% new cars. 509 & 510 are supposed to be 100% new cars last year to the point 510 was to be on August 31, 2014. 511 is supposed to be now, but yet to see cars. 514 is supposed to have 10 cars come May, but not going to make it.

Current evidence of the new cars being inservice on 504 King seems to be contradicting the idea of having them in service on bathurst. My guess would be do to the uncertainty of when the city will begin work on the bridge, needing streetcars elsewhere they are keeping buses on Bathurst. Having the new ones on Kig could also be part of the study for improvements to king. The only problem I see with them on King on sundays is they seem to follow each other alot and not be spaced out very well. I wonder if until they get more of them they could assign 4 of them to king and have two loop from Dundas West to Dufferin and two loop from Broadview to Cherry Street?

 

[Steve X]

With the spares to come in April, TTC could reduce the number of new cars in service to cut back on service hours, but it would mean going against the plan to have lines 100% new cars. 509 & 510 are supposed to be 100% new cars last year to the point 510 was to be on August 31, 2014. 511 is supposed to be now, but yet to see cars. 514 is supposed to have 10 cars come May, but not going to make it.

I noticed the last few days, the doors are a lot slower to open and close on various cars to the point riders are pushing buttons to open them.

4433 is currently sitting in the yard either waiting other work or parts; more testing or to go into service on Fool day. Since I haven't follow it daily, its hard to say if all the burn in mileage has been done, considering when I have seen it on the map, it has been in the service bay regardless the time of day.

As for pans, its getting push back more and more likely due to cash flow for the work that could be used better elsewhere at this time. System was to be 100% converted last year.

Calm down, 4433 is out on the 509 now. That means the car was ready at the end of March.

 

[Andy T]

Looks like the Sunday Flexity runs are starting to run on Saturday as well. 4408 and 4417 are running on 504 right now.
EDIT: 4419 has joined as well.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Looks like the Sunday Flexity runs are starting to run on Saturday as well. 4408 and 4417 are running on 504 right now.

I just noticed that on NextBus. Also, I spotted one on Friday too, on the 504.

 

[drum118]

Calm down, 4433 is out on the 509 now. That means the car was ready at the end of March.

I am very calm as car will enter service when they can. Don't follow them these days like I did last year. The same goes for the overhead, as I am waiting to see the the pans up like I did in Europe.

Was watching it last night and it was in and out of the service bay and yard a fair number of times as late as 2 am. This car hasn't follow the past cars for testing as well service to go into service.

Had a feeling it would be fool day for entering service which has happen. If it wasn't for CP, the car would have enter service this past week in March.

 

[ckupr]

Current evidence of the new cars being inservice on 504 King seems to be contradicting the idea of having them in service on bathurst. My guess would be do to the uncertainty of when the city will begin work on the bridge, needing streetcars elsewhere they are keeping buses on Bathurst. Having the new ones on Kig could also be part of the study for improvements to king. The only problem I see with them on King on sundays is they seem to follow each other alot and not be spaced out very well. I wonder if until they get more of them they could assign 4 of them to king and have two loop from Dundas West to Dufferin and two loop from Broadview to Cherry Street?

According to the TTC website, streetcars will be back on Bathurst by May 7th.

http://www.ttc.ca/Service_Advisories/Construction/511C_short.jsp