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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

Seems to me that subway cars should have higher MTBF, since they operate in a more controlled environment and are perhaps simpler vehicles lacking fare machines, turn signals, door opening buttons, accessibility ramps and so on
 
smallspy said:
Then you should tell that to CAF, Bombardier, Breda, etc. All have built low-floor trams with bench seats over the wheels. Of course, the downside is that you lower the overall capacity of the car with them.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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But they left left a gap between the window. I don't recall seeing any that have benches right from the wall to improve standing space. On our streetcars, the bench would be from the middle of the outer seat to the middle of the inner seat, not just over the outer seat as a high floor vehicle would been.
 
Steve X said:
But they left left a gap between the window. I don't recall seeing any that have benches right from the wall to improve standing space. On our streetcars, the bench would be from the middle of the outer seat to the middle of the inner seat, not just over the outer seat as a high floor vehicle would been.
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There are quite a few models out there with benches against the wall, but they are usually on the narrower trams used in old Europe. And I'm well aware about how they'd be located if used in Toronto - that's why I added the caveat about lowering capacity.

The point is that it could absolutely be done.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Reecemartin said:
I don't know if it would really be less marketable. There will still be seats, I think at some point more standing room is important though.
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We definitely need good flow in the cars - the rear half of a CLRV under crush load is a very unpleasant experience - but the new cars do have better door locations. I just hate longitudinal bench seating in any vehicle.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Why are we in a hurry to make the cars less marketable? Is it unreasonable to want a seat on a streetcar?

- Paul
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This is exactly why they didn't use bench seats in Toronto. It was written into the specs that way.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
crs1026 said:
Why are we in a hurry to make the cars less marketable? Is it unreasonable to want a seat on a streetcar?

- Paul
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I think the issue isn't even so much marketability, as that the demographics of the City mean an large cohort of elderly people in the next decade or two in addition to all the other folks who need a seat for one reason or another.
 
crs1026 said:
Why are we in a hurry to make the cars less marketable? Is it unreasonable to want a seat on a streetcar?
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Depends on the variables.

If it's on a dedicated ROW route such as Spadina, the streetcars move much more smoothly (easier as a standee) and some may prefer the open-gangway freedom of the new TTC subway vehicles (wider hallways, easier to walk around people). Much more comfortable as a standee at peak if the hallways are wide enough to pass people.

Many people on the new open-gangway TTC trains, some people prefer standing up to sitting down, especially for shorter journeys. More so, than with the old subway trains.

Yes, seats are extremely important for the longer journeys. But Crosstown LRT, with 3-LRV consists, and dedicated lanes allowing fewer herky-jerky motions (of a peak period King/Queen streetcar fighting traffic) might be better served with the wider hallway widths than normally used on shared-lane TTC streetcars. For a 90-meter train, there's much more seats elsewhere in the trains and peak-period standees (who can't find seats) will prefer the easier ability to embark/disembark/pay fares/etc with fewer pinch points caused by seating.

In other words.... to provide the "freedom breathing room on a LRV just like on the new subway trains".... it is simply likely just the removal of 4 or 8 seats per LRV, to make things massively more comfortable for HALF of the vehicle (the standees).

I have ridden LRVs in other cities that felt closer to the new TTC subway trains (and ran on a relatively smooth ROW) and I can understand why that experience may be preferred by standees -- just like you might prefer standing on the new TTC subway trains (at least compared to old TTC streetcars or old TTC subway trains) -- for at least a short trip.

Also, I find people on the new subway trains are more willing to give up the priority seating because of (1) their distinctive color and (2) the better standee experience of new subway trains. ... Demographical problem solved.

But yes, most streetcar routes like King/Queen today isn't a very comfortable standee experience.
 
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I find the New York City bench seats made out of slippery plastic or fiberglass worse.

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Bombardier streetcar schedule has more ‘credibility’ with new management: TTC head

This was past onto me about Minneapolis BBD Cars

The contract for Minneapolis’ Bombers (Bombardier Flexity) was completed in Jan 2001. I don’t know what the schedule was but the first car arrived in March of 2003. It was shipped via truck from Mexico because there wasn’t time for shipment by rail. I watched it come up Park Avenue in Minneapolis that March.

The LRVs appeared to have been slapped together.

One friend of mine (a tall guy) was in the first operator pool and he told me that he could not operate the B end of car 102 because the operators seat was 2” closer to the front of the car than the other cars.

Another friend was helping to assemble the cars after their arrival. There was one shipment he told me about where 3 cars came in at the same time. The top side panels that hid the rooftop equipment were all shipped together. They had to hold each panel up to different positions on the cars to see where they fit as each one had been installed a little differently.

Finally, another friend was on a tour of the maintenance facility and had a chance to chat with a guy working on a recent arrival. He was grinding down the rough edges of the seat frames so riders wouldn’t catch and tear their clothes. He commented that he had previously worked for Northwest Airlines and that NW would never have accepted a plane in that condition.

We noticed that when new the cars were very quiet and smooth but after several months there was a serious vibration at speeds over about 45. I remember riding one car where it seemed that every panel in the car was vibrating. I rode a Bomber last week and noticed the same vibration once it got over about 45. So it’s still there after some 750,000 miles.

The Bombers and Siemens S70s are mechanically trainable but not electronically. So one car tow the other in case of a breakdown but they cannot operate in the same train. Portland trains their oldest Bombardiers with the newer Siemens SD660s so it can be done. Leaves me wondering if Metro Transit intends to eventually phase out the Bombers.
 
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