TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[FC_]

You have no idea how long it takes, but you ask how can it possibly take that long with some kind of surprise? The shipping alone will eat up 2-3 weeks. 2-3 more doing running tests after they've finished. I'd assume there's a summer shutdown at the factory for a couple of weeks in there as well. That's half the time right there - without anything actually being done!

Hilarious.

Fair enough. It's just so unfortunate that it'll take so long to send back, reconfigure, and have delivered, especially since we've been seeing it cruising the streets for so long as a test and training car. You'd hope they could turn it around as quickly as possible, which is no doubt what they're trying to do.

Does the delivery estimate for 2015 include this unit that's being sent back for return in October, or could it very well arrive along with another new unit?

 

[nfitz]

There is not an unlimited supply of PRESTO readers and the TTC is trying to spread them around; makes sense to me to put on only main entrances until all stations have at least one. Clearly all entrances will get them in due course, patience my friend!

One would hope they'd Presto all the locations.

Nothing more frustrating than arriving at one of those entrances of a supposedly Presto-activated station with a child, and despite a supply of tokens, Metropasses, and PrestoCards of various types, having to walk somewhere else. Had the same problem at the Yonge north of Bloor entrance of Yonge station the other day ... ironically the only entrance for Yonge station that I can think of that's actually on Yonge Street!

 

[wopchop]

Does the delivery estimate for 2015 include this unit that's being sent back for return in October, or could it very well arrive along with another new unit?

Now THAT would be funny. I can just imagine some PM telling Byford "Well, the contract isn't specific, or say that a delivery can't be for a streetcar that we've already delivered previously!"

 

[nfitz]

Now THAT would be funny. I can just imagine some PM telling Byford "Well, the contract isn't specific, or say that a delivery can't be for a streetcar that we've already delivered previously!"

4401 and 4402 haven't previously been delivered, for TTC has never accepted them. Bombardier can cart them around the entire province as much as they want, but it doesn't count until TTC accepts.

 

[wopchop]

4401 and 4402 haven't previously been delivered, for TTC has never accepted them. Bombardier can cart them around the entire province as much as they want, but it doesn't count until TTC accepts.

Right ... so then they could count as deliveries under the schedule. Right?

 

[nfitz]

Right ... so then they could count as deliveries under the schedule. Right?

Once they come back.

The only target Bombardier has to meet is 204 by end of 2019 - currently at 6 (assuming that TTC hasn't accepted 4408 yet). If they miss their 30 for end of 2015, but are actually at 28, then I'd think most people would be thinking ... close enough.

 

[TOareaFan]

One would hope they'd Presto all the locations.

Nothing more frustrating than arriving at one of those entrances of a supposedly Presto-activated station with a child, and despite a supply of tokens, Metropasses, and PrestoCards of various types, having to walk somewhere else. Had the same problem at the Yonge north of Bloor entrance of Yonge station the other day ... ironically the only entrance for Yonge station that I can think of that's actually on Yonge Street!

Similar experience......St. George is Presto enabled but not the entrance on St. George.....only the one on Bedford!

 

[rbt]

Right ... so then they could count as deliveries under the schedule. Right?

Of course. If they haven't been delivered yet, so they will delivered at some point in the future. I presume that official delivery initiates some kind of payment from TTC; Bombardier doesn't want to hold back any longer than necessary.

 

[nfitz]

Here's a Presto Reader on a different streetcar. I think this one is an ALRV, being on Queen, and looking at the ceiling (the other would have been a CLRV on St. Clair).


from Jason Paris on Instagram

 

[MetroMan]

I asked Jason this question on Instagram but perhaps it would be helpful to get the answer here so more people will be informed.

He says that you must still take a transfer when tapping in with Presto if you'd like to transfer to another vehicle. Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of an electronic fare system?

If I tap Presto on the Queen Streetcar, I have to walk up front to the driver and ask for a transfer if I intend to take the subway at Osgoode?

 

[innsertnamehere]

yes as the rest of the system doesnt have presto yet. Once the whole system is presto outfitted you won't need it.

 

[MetroMan]

yes as the rest of the system doesnt have presto yet. Once the whole system is presto outfitted you won't need it.

But if I'm transferring to a Presto enabled streetcar or subway station, I won't need a paper transfer correct? In my example, I was boarding a Queen streetcar outfitted with Presto. I tap to get on. Then if I'm transferring to the subway at Osgoode which is also equipped, I can just tap in again and it'll recognize my transfer and not charge me again. Is that correct?

If so...

1) how long is the valid transfer period?
2) does Presto recognize what the most direct route is or can I backtrack?

 

[nfitz]

He says that you must still take a transfer when tapping in with Presto if you'd like to transfer to another vehicle. Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of an electronic fare system?

I'd think the primary purpose of an electronic fare system is to eliminate tickets/tokens and reduce cash usage. I'd think eliminating paper transfers would be a secondary purpose. There are systems that have adopted similar cards, that don't even allow transfers!

One fully implemented, transfers will be gone. I'll simply be happy to not have to buy as many tokens.

But if I'm transferring to a Presto enabled streetcar or subway station, I won't need a paper transfer correct? In my example, I was boarding a Queen streetcar outfitted with Presto. I tap to get on. Then if I'm transferring to the subway at Osgoode which is also equipped, I can just tap in again and it'll recognize my transfer and not charge me again. Is that correct?

There's been no official announcement.

But I'd assume they have made no attempt to program the TTC transfer table yet, so I'd assume that if you tapped a second time 10 minutes later on a subway station, or a different streetcar, it would charge you again - or else how would it now if it's a return trip, or a different trip?

If so, how long is the valid transfer period?

The paper transfers they issue would have the same period as they do now.

 

[MetroMan]

What a flustercluck. I would not want to be a tourist using Presto while here during the PanAm Games. Such a confusing system that even a local can't keep track of how it works.

Thanks for the clarifications nfitz and innsertnamehere.

 

[nfitz]

What a flustercluck. I would not want to be a tourist using Presto while here during the PanAm Games. Such a confusing system that even a local can keep track of how it works.

I don't think anyone is advising tourists to be using Presto during the Pan Am games on TTC. It's only going to be available in a bit more than 1/3 of the subway stations, and on a handful of new streetcars. Though there's barely a legitimate transfer you'd have to make with the current deployment. Perhaps from 509 to 510 ... but as the majority of cars on both routes are non-Presto, you really need a transfer. None of those routes intercept any subway stations where you have to show a transfer to get in.