TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[rbt]

Most cities set up (or start to set up) reserve funds when they decide to have a large project (such as streetcars and new subway cars). But not David Miller. Toronto had (and I think still has) one of the lowest reverse funds per capita in the GTA.

http://www.toronto.ca/budget2011/2011_budget_summary/pdf/fcp/reserves.pdf

Basically, David Miller was a good politician. Promised a lot and then was able to high tail it out of the city before he had to pay for his promises.

So, yes. Thank David Miller for signing the contract. But Rob Ford (and Rob Ford's successor) are left with these huge captial expeneses and no plan given to them by David Miller to pay for it (Toronto's portion that is).

(personally I think that the politician who promises the expenditure should have a plan to actually pay for it...via these reserve funds or increased reserve funds)

While the reserve fund was low the Land Transfer Tax more than made up for that gap making it a little unfair to say Miller didn't leave a plan to pay for it. In fact, Miller left things in good enough shape that Ford used the surpluses to hold off an inflationary tax increase (~2.5% real reduction relative to expenses).

Miller wasn't wonderful financially, but Ford took a workable situation and put a knife through it by eliminating around $50m/year in revenue. $1.5B over 30 years would have covered much of the Miller related debt.

 

[Torontovibe]

Did you try http://incompetech.com?

That's where I got the music from but thanks for the suggestion. (I only use music from that site and Garageband on occasion) I try not to use the same tracks too many times, so I keep changing them but there is only so many times you can do that. So yeah, some of the music is not the greatest but that's what the mute button is for. Actually, truth be told, I happen to like quirky, cheesy dance/pop music. Good taste is not something I value, being a non-conformist, so I'm not too heartbroken over criticism. In fact, I get a chuckle over it, so fire away. What true artist ever prided themselves for having "good taste"? Good taste is the death of creativity and great art.

 

[ehlow]

It felt surprisingly like a subway with the length of it, it feels almost nothing like the existing CLRVs and ALRVs. The big windows and low floors completely change the experience.

I agree, although to me it felt more like the Montreal Metro than the Toronto subway, due to the narrowness.

 

[P23]

Some Brampton buses have those yellow strips too...of course some have stop buttons too and some have yellow pull cords too.

That said, if you did not know how to stop a bus/streetcar, would you not just ask someone? Or watch what people a few stops earlier are doing?

No offense but I'm glad you aren't in charge of this kind of thing. It should be immediately apparent to the user how to request a stop, that's the job of the designers.

W. K. Lis makes an excellent point about the confusion surrounding the stop signals and emergency strip. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an international standard for these things in terms of colour, placement or method of activation.

On other systems I've even noticed people having trouble opening doors on vehicles because they use an unusual method like waving a hand or pressing a strip. Even though there are signs that describe how to use them most people either don't notice those, can't be bothered to read them or just don't understand english. You have to design things with these people in mind. I also anticipate this issue on the new streetcars since they use a button to open the doors which riders are unused to.

 

[ksun]

I agree, although to me it felt more like the Montreal Metro than the Toronto subway, due to the narrowness.

that's great.
I always thought Spadina Ave needs a subway. Will the TTC eliminate some stops at all?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

that's great.
I always thought Spadina Ave needs a subway. Will the TTC eliminate some stops at all?

I don't think a subway is necessary. A proper LRT would be nice though.

 

[ksun]

I don't think a subway is necessary. A proper LRT would be nice though.

doesn't make too much a difference to me as long as it moves people rapidly with sufficient capacity, comfort, frequency and without excessive number of stops (400m instead of 200m that is typical of streetcars).
Actually Spadina shouldn't have an underground transit. Above ground works the best.

 

[pstogios]

All the 510 line needs is signal priority all the way through, and traffic enforcement to get those assholes that block the intersection ticketed and/or towed away.

 

[andrewpmk]

that's great.
I always thought Spadina Ave needs a subway. Will the TTC eliminate some stops at all?

Yes, the new streetcars are horribly overcrowded just like the old ones. I'll bet Eglinton will be just as bad as this as well. Toronto is way too big for LRT and any LRT lines we build will be horribly overcrowded if we don't build proper subways like other big cities have. LRT does not make sense in a city with some of the worst traffic in the developed world and the most condos in North America.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Evidence please?

AoD

 

[adHominem]

Fine, I'll bite.

Yes, the new streetcars are horribly overcrowded just like the old ones.

Even now, a few days after start of service, people are deliberately letting the old CLRVs drive past so they can have a ride on the new vehicles. They're busier than normal. Let's wait and see what it's like once the novelty's worn off and more new vehicles are in service.

I'll bet Eglinton will be just as bad as this as well.

Not an apples-to-apples comparison. Eglinton is LRT, Spadina is a streetcar. Despite what Rob "they're just fancy streetcars, folks" Ford says.

Toronto is way too big for LRT

Toronto isn't homogeneous. Density on Eglinton east is different from central Eglinton, is different from Spadina, is different from Yonge. Some parts of town require one mode of transit, some require another.

if we don't build proper subways like other big cities have.

Oh, I see your trouble. You've got a case of World Klass-itis. Take two aspirin, call me in the morning.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Oh, I see your trouble. You've got a case of World Klass-itis. Take two aspirin, call me in the morning.

Why thank you for your public service adH. Kool-Aid might be more apt.

Incidentally of course was that the Spadina streetcar was thrown around as a case study for bad public transit investment given the relatively static ridership vis-a-vis the buses awhile ago.

AoD

 

[DSC]

Yes, the new streetcars are horribly overcrowded just like the old ones. I'll bet Eglinton will be just as bad as this as well. Toronto is way too big for LRT and any LRT lines we build will be horribly overcrowded if we don't build proper subways like other big cities have. LRT does not make sense in a city with some of the worst traffic in the developed world and the most condos in North America.

What a foolish posting and I agree with everything Adhominem says. I would add though that MANY (other?) world class cities have LRT as they realise that a proper transit SYSTEM is composed of many kinds and levels of demand. Some demand can be met by buses, some by streetcars (really larger buses), some by LRT (really bigger streetcars or above-ground subways) and some by subways. It make no sense to build a subway where a bus will give enough service for the foreseeable future.

 

[ehlow]

Toronto is way too big for LRT and any LRT lines we build will be horribly overcrowded if we don't build proper subways like other big cities have.

Is it also too big of a city for buses? Buses have even less capacity than LRT.

 

[nfitz]

Incidentally of course was that the Spadina streetcar was thrown around as a case study for bad public transit investment given the relatively static ridership vis-a-vis the buses awhile ago.

Where was that? Steve Munro reported that the 77 Spadina bus ridership was only 32,838 riders/day back in 1989. The Spadina/Harbourfront streetcar weekday ridership was over 55,000 in 2012. Now that includes Harbourfront service, but you only have to look at the number of streetcars assigned to each, to see where the ridership is.

If you look at a 1994 service summary, when the bus was still running - they ran 24 buses back in 1991 on weekday afternoons, 19 buses on Saturdays, and 12 buses on Sundays. Now they run 21 streetcars on weekday afternoons, 21 on Saturdays, and 18 on Sundays. Capacity is significantly higher than it used to be. And yet it's frequently crush loads. One could argue that the ridership is currently constrained by the service, and that there is latent ridership that would be there if there was more capacity.