TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[drum118]

I am surprised that the top is not covered. Your photo show quite well how easy it is for road salt to be sprayed onto the top.

They are done the same way around the world and why should we go against the grain?

Ours are new, while Europe has had them for decades with no problems.

Extra weight, cost and time to install the covers as well remove them.

Buffalo has had them since the 80's.

 

[gweed123]

I'm concerned that there likely won't be more than these two new LFLRV's in Toronto for a while, because of that strike at Bombardier.

The latest news is certainly not good.

Does anyone know how many production vehicles we can expect going forward? Are we stuck with these ones (and which ones, exactly, beyond 4400+4403) for a long time?

On the plus side, this may cancel out the penalties Bombardier will want to impose for the cancellation of the LRVs for the Scarborough LRT (and the delay of the Sheppard East and Finch West LRVs). Toronto owing money for cancellation of TC LRVs + Bombardier owning money for delay in Legacy Network LRVs = (potentially) 0.

 

[nfitz]

On the plus side, this may cancel out the penalties Bombardier will want to impose for the cancellation of the LRVs for the Scarborough LRT (and the delay of the Sheppard East and Finch West LRVs). Toronto owing money for cancellation of TC LRVs + Bombardier owning money for delay in Legacy Network LRVs = (potentially) 0.

I don't see how it would effect the penalties at all. We've heard that a strike is one of the conditions under which Bombardier doesn't have to pay penalties.

A better chance to avoid penalties, if Metrolinx does cancel 48 of the Flexity Freedoms for the SRT, is to swap them out for the 60 extra Flexity Outlooks that TTC is asking for. Given that the 196 Flexity Freedoms were ordered as an option on the TTC Flexity Outlook order, you'd think that swapping them shouldn't too logistically difficult to avoid huge penalties. At the end of the day Bombardier would be looking at 412 Flexity sales under the contract, compared to the 400 currently (and 386 when they signed the deal with Metrolinx in 2010).

 

[gweed123]

I don't see how it would effect the penalties at all. We've heard that a strike is one of the conditions under which Bombardier doesn't have to pay penalties.

I wasn't aware of that. I would have figured that a delivery delay is a delivery delay. As a client, I wouldn't care if the workers went on strike. If my delivery is delayed, I would expect to be compensated for it. Your labour issues aren't my problem.

A better chance to avoid penalties, if Metrolinx does cancel 48 of the Flexity Freedoms for the SRT, is to swap them out for the 60 extra Flexity Outlooks that TTC is asking for. Given that the 196 Flexity Freedoms were ordered as an option on the TTC Flexity Outlook order, you'd think that swapping them shouldn't too logistically difficult to avoid huge penalties. At the end of the day Bombardier would be looking at 412 Flexity sales under the contract, compared to the 400 currently (and 386 when they signed the deal with Metrolinx in 2010).

That's a good point. The vehicles are remarkably similar, so changing the order tallies for each type of vehicle shouldn't be too much of a problem, especially if they haven't started building the SLRT LRVs yet.

 

[wopchop]

I wasn't aware of that. I would have figured that a delivery delay is a delivery delay. As a client, I wouldn't care if the workers went on strike. If my delivery is delayed, I would expect to be compensated for it. Your labour issues aren't my problem.t.

Not necessarily. I don't know about in manufacturing, but in the construction industry, a strike is considered an legitimate or excusable delay that the contractor cannot be penalized for, if they fail to meet a target date because of it.

 

[nfitz]

I wasn't aware of that. I would have figured that a delivery delay is a delivery delay. As a client, I wouldn't care if the workers went on strike. If my delivery is delayed, I would expect to be compensated for it. Your labour issues aren't my problem.

I doubt Bombardier would have ever accepted such a clause, and with the next bidder 50% higher, it would have been difficult to force it on them in the negotiations.

That's a good point. The vehicles are remarkably similar, so changing the order tallies for each type of vehicle shouldn't be too much of a problem, especially if they haven't started building the SLRT LRVs yet.

Especially if it results in a bigger total order. On the other hand, clearly Bombardier has cost issues in Thunder Bay. They price difference for the 10 extra subway trains they just ordered was significant.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Yes it's difficult to believe they "forgot" about winter/snow when designing it. There seems to be a prevalent myth about this though.

Just imagine all the Bombardier engineers going "oh s*it, we forgot to design this thing for winter" when December rolls around

 

[nfitz]

Just imagine all the Bombardier engineers going "oh s*it, we forgot to design this thing for winter" when December rolls around

It didn't seem to have any issues running last winter - unlike most of our other streetcars.

 

[Torontovibe]

Here is my video of the streetcar unveiling.

[video=youtube_share;KVE89Z2noLI]http://youtu.be/KVE89Z2noLI?list=UUX-Hig3SImVD5GxzlWb-IQQ[/video]

Notice how Ford wasn't there? I figured he'd have the nerve to show up and then say it was all because of his hard work.

 

[Torontovibe]

And of course, I had to ride it.

[video=youtube_share;sAa3PKbRNF8]http://youtu.be/sAa3PKbRNF8[/video]

I think the placement of the fare box, could be a problem because once the streetcar gets crowded, it's very hard to get to it and as you will see in my video, people lean right against it. A tourist wouldn't even see it, most likely.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

I am surprised that the top is not covered. Your photo show quite well how easy it is for road salt to be sprayed onto the top.

The equipment will be fine. Toronto's LFRV's are not the first to operate in winter conditions.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The TTC will have to update their website, see link:

Unlocking Gridlock

A simple solution to unlocking gridlock: in the A.M. rush it takes 55 cars* to carry 61 commuters who can otherwise be comfortably seated on one articulated streetcar heading downtown.

*Average 1.11 automobile occupancy for inbound trips to the city of Toronto.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The streets of Toronto would be a ghost town if everyone commuted with a streetcar

 

[ehlow]

Could Waterloo, or potentially other LRTs like Mississauga potentially make up for some of the Scarborough portion of the LRV order being cancelled?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Mississauga probably would, Waterloo has long since been added to the order and may actually be the ones to receive the first ones off the production line.