TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[ehlow]

Will the ticket validator machines be in the vehicles or at the stops (or both) I wonder?

 

[innsertnamehere]

oh I know. I was referencing TTM's mention that once PRESTO is on the streetcars fare evasion will be more difficult. Fare evasion is a reality of POP systems and can't really be avoided.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Four doors. When I've seen the inspectors on the 501 Queen, they are in pairs. I've seen them tell the driver to keep the doors closed as they walked through the streetcar to check for transfers or passes.

How long does that take? Checking hundreds of passengers per streetcar during rush hour would delay travel times substantially. Do they even check during rush hour?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

oh I know. I was referencing TTM's mention that once PRESTO is on the streetcars fare evasion will be more difficult. Fare evasion is a reality of POP systems and can't really be avoided.

When I said it would be difficult I wasn't comparing to today. I was it comparing when only our LFLRVs have Presto to when all our vehicles and stations have them.

When it's implemented on only streetcars, once you've transferred from the streetcar from another vehicle you've gotten away with the fare evasion. When Presto is rolled out system wide inspectors should be able to check for fare payment wherever you are

 

[rbt]

Will the ticket validator machines be in the vehicles or at the stops (or both) I wonder?

The plan earlier for the final Presto implementation was for both at busy stops but the legacy/cash ticket machines would be in vehicle only. It'll make for a bit of congestion early on (no worse than today) but you've got the travel time to pay for a ticket so it may not be too bad.

In a couple of years when tokens start to disappear it'll be a lot faster.

 

[Wrenkin]

How long does that take? Checking hundreds of passengers per streetcar during rush hour would delay travel times substantially. Do they even check during rush hour?

I've never seen this. I take the 501 sometimes, pay by token, and don't take a transfer. Am I supposed to? I'm not the only person that doesn't take one.

 

[EnviroTO]

I have the feeling they won't check at that point because it slows down the process of people getting off the vehicle. Maybe they'll quickly check when it's going into the tunnel but before people start leaving.

They check as people get off the Waterfront streetcar at Union as a means to speed things up. With the expectation that everyone will have paid onboard it would go even faster than at Union where most did not pay on the streetcar.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Will the ticket validator machines be in the vehicles or at the stops (or both) I wonder?

As mentioned earlier in this thread, on the vehicles and at the busier stops.


For information on the Peter Witt streetcar and trailer trains that ran in Toronto, see this link. They would have been the same length as one new LFLRV.

 

[Molybdenum]

I've never seen this. I take the 501 sometimes, pay by token, and don't take a transfer. Am I supposed to? I'm not the only person that doesn't take one.

Yes. If they do a fare inspection on 501 Queen and you don't have Proof of Payment, such as a valid transfer, you may be given a ticket. While admittedly it has been a rare occurrence in recent years to see anyone checking fares, TTC will be hiring quite a few new transit enforcement officers to check fares on streetcar routes, given that all routes will be POP in the coming years. More info on the current arrangement on Queen: http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp

 

[nfitz]

Yes. If they do a fare inspection on 501 Queen and you don't have Proof of Payment, such as a valid transfer, you may be given a ticket. While admittedly it has been a rare occurrence in recent years to see anyone checking fares, TTC will be hiring quite a few new transit enforcement officers to check fares on streetcar routes, given that all routes will be POP in the coming years. More info on the current arrangement on Queen: http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp

There were sightings of fare inspectors on 501 as recently as Wednesday. With all the new hires, I'd think this would start to be much more frequent, at least until the new streetcars start.

The signage and website are very clear - http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp

If you don't take a transfer between 7 am and 7 pm, then why even bother putting a token in, in the first place? Your just of guilty of breaking the law ...

This policy has been in effect for about a quarter-century.

 

[DSC]

Yes. If they do a fare inspection on 501 Queen and you don't have Proof of Payment, such as a valid transfer, you may be given a ticket. While admittedly it has been a rare occurrence in recent years to see anyone checking fares, TTC will be hiring quite a few new transit enforcement officers to check fares on streetcar routes, given that all routes will be POP in the coming years. More info on the current arrangement on Queen: http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp

If you pay cash or use a token you will only have proof that you paid if the Operator INSISTS that you take transfer. In my experience that is NOT what happens.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This policy has been in place for a quarter century but drivers rarely enforce it. I can't recall a time where a driver ever stopped a passenger to remind them that they should have a transfer. They really should have been, especially since Queen is the only route on the network with this policy. I don't know why anybody would be expecting TTC customers to give a damn about POP rules on Queen when the TTC itself doesn't care.

Why was the 501 even made a POP route? There must be a logical reason why Queen was made POP but the other high ridership routes (King, Spadina etc...) weren't.

 

[TOareaFan]

There were sightings of fare inspectors on 501 as recently as Wednesday. With all the new hires, I'd think this would start to be much more frequent, at least until the new streetcars start.

The signage and website are very clear - http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp

If you don't take a transfer between 7 am and 7 pm, then why even bother putting a token in, in the first place? Your just of guilty of breaking the law ...

This policy has been in effect for about a quarter-century.

The problem is that it is not as widely known as it probably should be.......I use the TTC a few times a week....typically either subway or King streetcar.....on occasion I have used the Queen car to get somewhere during the day and since I pay by token and the service "feels" very similar to my more commonly used King car, it would never dawn on me to take a transfer......

...having an "orphan" PoP line within a non-PoP service is strange....won't be an issue if/when the entire system switches to PoP

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If you pay cash or use a token you will only have proof that you paid if the Operator INSISTS that you take transfer. In my experience that is NOT what happens.

Will the inspectors tell a customer to get off the streetcar if they don't have POP?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

TTC's transfer rules are a messy collection of arbitrary rules that they've failed horribly at educating their customers about. I can guarantee you that most people in this city do not properly understand how transfers work.

Many people don't know how to do a subway to surface vehicle transfer.
Many don't know about Queen POP
Many don't know about St. Clair timed transfer
Many don't know how to handle a surface to surface transfer.

It's ridiculous.