News   Jul 15, 2024
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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

^^^ The current streetcars are capable of 110 km/h?!?!

Design speed, yes. I don't know if they are still actually able to get to those speeds, if retarders or speed limiters were applied.

Remember that the original SRT plans were to have coupled CLRV trains on a grade separated route almost the same as the one built for the ICTS trains. High-speed operation would have been used there.
 
I think these light rail vehicles are going to be a major improvement to streetcar service. Much higher capacity + all-door boarding.. I think it's going to be more reliable. Hopefully, they eliminate some less-used stops though, to take full advantage. With all-door boarding, to have stops where only a few people on/off would be a waste of time. Maybe stop request is pointless too... They need to think outside the box with these "streetcars", especially considering the upcoming Transit City lines, which use basically the same vehicle. How will they justify calling one "streetcar" the other "light rail transit" when they are in fact both light rail and use the same light rail vehicles and the same honour fare system? Eliminate some "streetcar" stops, and eliminate the stop request, seriously. It's time to change the TTC streetcar system from a traditional light rail network to a modern light rail network.
 
I think these light rail vehicles are going to be a major improvement to streetcar service. Much higher capacity + all-door boarding.. I think it's going to be more reliable. Hopefully, they eliminate some less-used stops though, to take full advantage. With all-door boarding, to have stops where only a few people on/off would be a waste of time. Maybe stop request is pointless too... They need to think outside the box with these "streetcars", especially considering the upcoming Transit City lines, which use basically the same vehicle. How will they justify calling one "streetcar" the other "light rail transit" when they are in fact both light rail and use the same light rail vehicles and the same honour fare system? Eliminate some "streetcar" stops, and eliminate the stop request, seriously. It's time to change the TTC streetcar system from a traditional light rail network to a modern light rail network.
So far, TTC and a few other people have found very few stops that need to be replace so far. I haven't come up to many stops so far either, but yet to travel all the lines to re-look a them.

If you got stops that need to go, say so since I have been asked by TTC for a list from riders on stops that need to go.

Stop request is govern by law/mandated. Unless you get it change, not going to happen. TTC has no plans as far as I know at this time to eliminate the special nighttime stopping for safety reason.

All door loading will speed thing up faster for sure and long over due on all routes. It start in 2014. This includes buses also.

The only way you going to modern TTC lines is to eliminated on street parking with traffic using the curb lane only. Not going to happen how the city is run these days.
 
Maybe stop request is pointless too... eliminate the stop request, seriously. It's time to change the TTC streetcar system from a traditional light rail network to a modern light rail network.

I thought stop request was for buses only.
 
streetcars operate just like buses in this regard.

Buses and streetcars make scheduled stops but operators can skip them if there is no one at the stop and no one on board pulls the cord. The 'Request Stop' program whereby operators can let passengers off between stops applies only to buses.
 
Buses and streetcars make scheduled stops but operators can skip them if there is no one at the stop and no one on board pulls the cord. The 'Request Stop' program whereby operators can let passengers off between stops applies only to buses.

gotcha...thought the discussion was about the ability of people to stop a streetcar at a stop rather than have them stop automatically.
 
Hopefully, they eliminate some less-used stops though, to take full advantage. With all-door boarding, to have stops where only a few people on/off would be a waste of time.

So far, TTC and a few other people have found very few stops that need to be replace so far. I haven't come up to many stops so far either, but yet to travel all the lines to re-look a them.

To me it is not just about eliminating stops that are poorly used but seizing the opportunity of the new vehicles to "re-launch" streetcar service/street lrt with a new mode of thinking.

So there may be stops that are well used but perhaps people need to be shown how easy the next stop over is to get to rather than just make the cars stop again.


I am no expert nor do I know the entire network but everyday I see the stop at Simcoe and King.....in the rush hours there are multiple (typically 3 - 5) street cars lined up in either direction between, say, Simcoe and York (ie as far as my old eyes can see)....you could never look at the stop and say "why does it stop there, no one is using that stop"...people do use it...but, man, the stop is one building/address away from the stop at Universty and King!

I get that that there is going to be a bigger gap between cars once the new longer ones go into service but it is (I think) unlikely to totally eliminate the bunching and with the longer cars do we really need (can we really afford) to have cars stopped at King and Simcoe and at King and University?

Both well used stops but probably not both needed....with a little education/pr surely we can take a stop out and put some efficiency in?

Like I said, I am no system expert but I can't imagine that King and Simcoe is the only well used but, still, redundant stop in the network.

EDIT: I should say that the sort of re-think/re-launch I am talking about does not preclude the possibility that it is the King and University stop that gets eliminated rather than the King and Simcoe stop.

We have all seen streetcars pull up to busy/major intersections like King and Uni....on a green light but they stop for embarking/disembarking passengers...once that process is done the light is now red and, in effect, the streetcar has been stopped twice...along with necessitating cars to be stopped (not a plea or cars here so don't shoot me) and contributing to the overall busyness/congestion of the intersection.

Perhaps when you look at all of that it might make sense to maintain the stop at Simcoe and eliminate the stop at University and use strong/better directional signage to direct people to the subway at University (north side can easily access through 200 King West and south side can stroll along King or enter through the entrance to RTH to get underground access).

All to say, use this opportunity to rethink the integration of streetcars/stops/intersections/people and, yes, cars to figure out which stops stay and which go.....then re-launch.
 
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To me it is not just about eliminating stops that are poorly used but seizing the opportunity of the new vehicles to "re-launch" streetcar service/street lrt with a new mode of thinking.

So there may be stops that are well used but perhaps people need to be shown how easy the next stop over is to get to rather than just make the cars stop again.


I am no expert nor do I know the entire network but everyday I see the stop at Simcoe and King.....in the rush hours there are multiple (typically 3 - 5) street cars lined up in either direction between, say, Simcoe and York (ie as far as my old eyes can see)....you could never look at the stop and say "why does it stop there, no one is using that stop"...people do use it...but, man, the stop is one building/address away from the stop at Universty and King!

I get that that there is going to be a bigger gap between cars once the new longer ones go into service but it is (I think) unlikely to totally eliminate the bunching and with the longer cars do we really need (can we really afford) to have cars stopped at King and Simcoe and at King and University?

Both well used stops but probably not both needed....with a little education/pr surely we can take a stop out and put some efficiency in?

Like I said, I am no system expert but I can't imagine that King and Simcoe is the only well used but, still, redundant stop in the network.

EDIT: I should say that the sort of re-think/re-launch I am talking about does not preclude the possibility that it is the King and University stop that gets eliminated rather than the King and Simcoe stop.

We have all seen streetcars pull up to busy/major intersections like King and Uni....on a green light but they stop for embarking/disembarking passengers...once that process is done the light is now red and, in effect, the streetcar has been stopped twice...along with necessitating cars to be stopped (not a plea or cars here so don't shoot me) and contributing to the overall busyness/congestion of the intersection.

Perhaps when you look at all of that it might make sense to maintain the stop at Simcoe and eliminate the stop at University and use strong/better directional signage to direct people to the subway at University (north side can easily access through 200 King West and south side can stroll along King or enter through the entrance to RTH to get underground access).

All to say, use this opportunity to rethink the integration of streetcars/stops/intersections/people and, yes, cars to figure out which stops stay and which go.....then re-launch.

Stops at Victoria for 3 lines need to go; York St for 2 lines need to go; Simcoe for 2 lines need to go; and this seems to be the thinking of TTC also.

Looking at McCaul, John and Peter on Queen, one should go, but all 3 are heavy use as well McCaul is a short turn stop. Same for King except no McCaul.

You can look at removing a stop on Dundas between Bay and University as well College.

Going west and east of this area, you are going to be hard press to find a stop since the grids don't line up.

What someone needs to do and TTC has supposed have done is do a stop count at all stop all day long for a week to see what the counts are as well when X riders are the most.

The one thing we need to be careful about, some stops will see a spike in ridership due to the new cars as well being accessibly along with better access for strollers and they maybe the ones on the chopping block now. This is outside Victoria, Simcoe and York. Even the Bathurst/Bloor stop should go.

As much as we want to, we can't remove stops on any of the ROW.

Another stop that should go is between Front and King on Bathurst. With Bridgeport Hospital relocated now, one of the 2 stops currently used for it should be remove on Boardview or both of them. There maybe another stop on Boardview between Gerard and Bloor that should be remove as well the Bloor stop. There is a stop as you come out of the Boardview station loop that should go. The stop between Spadina and Portland needs to go on King.

To understand if a stop should go is to walk the area to see what it is like to walk to another location.

Going eastbound on King and using Simcoe in place of University has merit.
 
Going eastbound on King and using Simcoe in place of University has merit.

I agree but wonder why not also westbound? Subway access is easier from the Simcoe stop westbound than it is from the subway stop eastbound.

Either way, the in car announcement could say "next stop Simcoe for University subway and Roy Thomson Hall" or something like that.
 
Buses and streetcars make scheduled stops but operators can skip them if there is no one at the stop and no one on board pulls the cord. The 'Request Stop' program whereby operators can let passengers off between stops applies only to buses.

I was talking about normal stops request, not special Request Stop, which why I didn't capitalize "Request Stop". 905 systems have similar program. I wasn't talking about that.

Basically, what I was trying to ask is whether it is wise for light rail vehicles that are 2.5 times longer than conventional buses and has 4 times the capacity of conventional buses to operate like conventional buses, especially when very similar light rail vehicles in the suburbs will not operate like conventional buses (or at least I assume/hope they won't).

When you have 200+ passengers in each streetcar, and their frequency is reduced, and there is an all-door boarding system that makes it possible to have stops further apart without increasing boarding/unloading times, then why have the streetcars stop at every intersection and passengers make stop requests? That setup is good for lightly used lines with smaller vehicles, when stops are likely to be skipped, but not for 30m long light rail vehicles operating along the busiest streets in the downtown of Canada's largest city. Seriously, even in Mississauga, the 18m artics NEVER skip stops during rush hour, let alone 30m light rail vehicles in the heart of Toronto.
 
I agree that some current streetcar stops could be eliminated and some could be moved but I suspect that there will not be unanimous support for which ones get eliminated or moved! If the TTC intends to review the stops, as they should before making curb cuts all over the place, they really need to do a proper survey (as Drum suggests) and maybe ask publicly for suggestions. I suggest they maybe only need to look at the Sunday-only stops and all that are not at either a subway station or are not 'transfer stops' - another bus or streetcar route going in a different direction.
 
I was talking about normal stops request, not special Request Stop, which why I didn't capitalize "Request Stop". 905 systems have similar program. I wasn't talking about that.

Basically, what I was trying to ask is whether it is wise for light rail vehicles that are 2.5 times longer than conventional buses and has 4 times the capacity of conventional buses to operate like conventional buses, especially when very similar light rail vehicles in the suburbs will not operate like conventional buses (or at least I assume/hope they won't).

When you have 200+ passengers in each streetcar, and their frequency is reduced, and there is an all-door boarding system that makes it possible to have stops further apart without increasing boarding/unloading times, then why have the streetcars stop at every intersection and passengers make stop requests? That setup is good for lightly used lines with smaller vehicles, when stops are likely to be skipped, but not for 30m long light rail vehicles operating along the busiest streets in the downtown of Canada's largest city. Seriously, even in Mississauga, the 18m artics NEVER skip stops during rush hour, let alone 30m light rail vehicles in the heart of Toronto.

ANDDDD outside of 7-9am and 3-7pm??? You will have them stop everywhere for no reason?
 
July 24
Steel is going up on the new carhouse
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9373094201_4c12fbceec_b.jpg
 
To me it is not just about eliminating stops that are poorly used but seizing the opportunity of the new vehicles to "re-launch" streetcar service/street lrt with a new mode of thinking.

Right on. And I would love the TTC to be aggressive on the passenger side of this too. Enforce the bylaws! Make it clear "this isn't your father's streetcar."
 
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