TTC Fleet Procurement Strategy - 2022

[T3G]

I do prefer plastic seats over fuzzy seats, yes.

The fuzzy seats are unbearable if you are wearing shorts, I'm feeling itchy all over just thinking about them. The worst inconvenience one experiences in a plastic seat is that you may slide around during rough acceleration or braking or on corners.

The best ones of course were the leatherette seats that used to be in use on the Hawker cars, which unfortunately gave way to the monstrosities they used on the T1.

 

[smallspy]

Good info, I certainly would not have guessed at that based on the age of the rolling stock!

So, going way off on a tangent here....

In the 1980s, the Turkish government was looking at improving transit in their capital, and they awarded a turn-key contract to everyone's favourite enginering and consultancy firm, SNC-Lavalin. They had partnered with UTDC/Can-Car to provide the railcars - based on their RT75 design, but built with then state-of-the-art AC traction and set up as 3-car sets - and Alcatel for their SelTrac signalling system.

The three had worked together a number of times to sell the ICTS - what Toronto used on the Scarborough RT - to various cities around the world, but this would be the only heavy rail subway that they would partner on.

Dan

 

[jje1000]

Some pressure from the Thunder Bay Alstom plant:

 

[T3G]

Bit presumptuous of them to think that they'd get the order if there was funding for it, no?

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Bit presumptuous of them to think that they'd get the order if there was funding for it, no?

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they did get the order. The plant has been one missed procurement contract away from closing for at least 2 decades. The only thing that has been keeping that plant running has been GTHA transit projects from GO coach refurbishments to TTC streetcars and the Gen 1 TRs

 

[drum118]

Bit presumptuous of them to think that they'd get the order if there was funding for it, no?

Do you realize that TB only exist because of the province to buy seats???

Who is ordering anything from TB theses days other than TTC and GO??

If TTC and the province went to the open market like they should, TB plant will finally close its doors like a number of previous owners have try to do over the decades.

 

[Bordercollie]

Do you realize that TB only exist because of the province to buy seats???

Who is ordering anything from TB theses days other than TTC and GO??

If TTC and the province went to the open market like they should, TB plant will finally close its doors like a number of previous owners have try to do over the decades.

I thought that all bi-level coaches are built there?

 

[81-717]

The above will be pushing 50 years old by then and not be equipped for ATC either.

They wouldn't be 50 years old until 2047. And the fact that they were retired at 20 is inexplicable and screams conspiracy against the Hawkers.

As for the H6s the last one rolled out of production in 1990 and the last one was retired in 2014, so their lifespan was about 24 years.

And the H6/T1 hybrids ran from 1997 to 2019, which is only 22 years, even less than our H6s, despite the H6/T1 hybrids surely being more reliable.

 

[Northern Light]

They wouldn't be 50 years old until 2047. And the fact that they were retired at 20 is inexplicable.

@T3G clarified for me below.

When I responded to the post in question, I had (wrongly) assumed the Ankara cars were the old H6s, rather than newly produced cars.

I knew some of the H5s made their way to Lagos, Nigeria, and had the same thought in mind.

****

That said, the Ankara cars (having now looked this up) were made in 1996 and so would be 35 years old in 2031, the earliest plausible completion date for the SSE, which was what was being asked about.

****

As for the H6s the last one rolled out of production in 1990 and the last one was retired in 2014, so their lifespan was about 24 years.

 

[T3G]

Ahem.

Before correcting me; perhaps read the post to which I was responding. The first train listed was H5.

H5's would be 50 years old.

The poster clustered H5/H6/T1) together. That's three different generations of rolling stock. They first arrived in 1976.

H6's date from 1986. An H6 was what was pictured in the post to which I was responding.

That is not an H6, that is the H6/T1 Frankenstein from Ankara that was built in 1997.

It appears superficially similar to our H6s, but under the hood corresponds more so with the T1s.

H5s, just like H6s, were mentioned only for their visual similarity with the Ankara cars. Not that it would be a solution.

 

[drum118]

I thought that all bi-level coaches are built there?

Yes the Bi-levels were built in TB for GO and an number of US system as well some been refurbished there as well for GO.

Again, those cars were built there to support the city and seats.

If we are to move to true EMU's, Bi-levels will no longer be built as is. With the buy in America in place, all US systems are building cars in the US only, leaving TB out of the picture. Sun Rail was the last system to get cars from TB.

CCRR has a plant on the east coast of Canada and it wouldn't take much for someone to setup shop in Canada to build or ship equipment from the US starting with Stadler and Siemens.

TB plant is about 100 years old.

 

[dowlingm]

One of my alternative history scenarios is the Dash 8s being built in Thunder Bay and the rail plant being at Downsview, rolling cars directly out onto the GTA’s metro and heavy rail networks. Some Dashes would have been ferried down to Toronto but unlike rail cars it’s harder for a tagger to get them en route

 

[smallspy]

With the buy in America in place, all US systems are building cars in the US only, leaving TB out of the picture. Sun Rail was the last system to get cars from TB.

Alstom is currently shipping out BiLevel cars for a number of US properties. Sounder, Coaster and ACE all have received cars in the past two years.

Even though they are built in Canada, they do have enough US content in them to appear to meet the relevant "Buy America" provisions.

Dan