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TTC: Electric and alternative fuel buses

drum118 said:
Greensburg, Louisville and Nashville have overhead charging stations at terminals, on the street or both. No different to what is found in Europe, other than they are lager compared to Europe. Doing it this way leaves the bus on the route for 24hr that only takes 10 minutes or less to charge or top off a bus as needed. Most terminals have more than one with some having them at all bays.

To me, having them at terminal is a must.
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Heck, even locally, Brampton has overhead charging stations at the terminals for the 23/26 now, with plans to expand the footprint when the time comes. I'm sure there are other parts of the country under CUTRIC/CIB that are also doing similar projects with overhead charging stations either at the terminals, along the route, or both.

IIRC the overhead pantographs can charge the bus to full in 7-10 minutes. I don't remember the exact figure but it was around something similar, unless this figure was supposed to be for the newer pantographs by Siemens and not ABB.
 
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turbanplanner said:
Seems like a bad idea, not just because that team is perpetually late but when I visited YVR it was interesting seeing how the trolley busses couldn't really pass each other, not as a big of a deal there but imagine the bunching when you have 10 min frequencies .
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I doubt very much that bunching would be a big problem at 10 minute frequencies. At least not on paper, whether the line supervisor is asleep at the wheel or actually doing their job is a different issue. But provided the line supervisor is capable of engaging with the world around them and reacting correctly when an emergency arises that stops the line, 10 minutes is a wide enough headway for bunching not to be a problem. Where bunching is a problem, no matter how well the supervisor does their job, is on routes with far shorter frequencies, 2, 3, 4 minutes, as we have here.

What team is perpetually late?
 
drum118 said:
Greensburg, Louisville and Nashville have overhead charging stations at terminals, on the street or both. No different to what is found in Europe, other than they are lager compared to Europe. Doing it this way leaves the bus on the route for 24hr that only takes 10 minutes or less to charge or top off a bus as needed. Most terminals have more than one with some having them at all bays.

To me, having them at terminal is a must.
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That's exactly why I asked . Also don't fort Detroit's "LRT" uses them to at the ends of it's run and there is a LRT line in Australia that uses them too.
 
JJTheJetPln said:
Heck, even locally, Brampton has overhead charging stations at the terminals for the 23/26 now, with plans to expand the footprint when the time comes. I'm sure there are other parts of the country under CUTRIC/CIB that are also doing similar projects with overhead charging stations either at the terminals, along the route, or both.

IIRC the overhead pantographs can charge the bus to full in 7-10 minutes. I don't remember the exact figure but it was around something similar, unless this figure was supposed to be for the newer pantographs by Siemens and not ABB.
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Since it doesn't seem to be clear....

There are two different "flavours" of battery electric buses available on the market.

The ones that the TTC are buying have huge battery capacities, and are designed to operate for a full shift/full day on a single charge, getting charged back at the garage. The idea is that this minimizes the infrastructure required to be build throughout the network, limiting it to just the garages. The disadvantage is that the vehicles are considerably heavier, and in some cases have a lower passenger capacity to account for this.

The buses in use in Brampton had a very small battery capacity, lasting for an hour or less in service. Thus, they need to have chargers located both at the garage(s) and out on the routes. This means that the price of the buses is less as is their weight, but the downside is that there needs to be a considerable amount of charging infrastructure built throughout the network - which can make it difficult to change routes should the ridership conditions and patterns require.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
Since it doesn't seem to be clear....

There are two different "flavours" of battery electric buses available on the market.

The ones that the TTC are buying have huge battery capacities, and are designed to operate for a full shift/full day on a single charge, getting charged back at the garage. The idea is that this minimizes the infrastructure required to be build throughout the network, limiting it to just the garages. The disadvantage is that the vehicles are considerably heavier, and in some cases have a lower passenger capacity to account for this.

The buses in use in Brampton had a very small battery capacity, lasting for an hour or less in service. Thus, they need to have chargers located both at the garage(s) and out on the routes. This means that the price of the buses is less as is their weight, but the downside is that there needs to be a considerable amount of charging infrastructure built throughout the network - which can make it difficult to change routes should the ridership conditions and patterns require.

Dan
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Thanks for that.

Could you point me to the buses that TTC are buying? I remember reading that Brampton is doing the same, I just wasn't convinced about the full shift/full day batteries.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
That's exactly why I asked . Also don't fort Detroit's "LRT" uses them to at the ends of it's run and there is a LRT line in Australia that uses them too.
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I left the LRT out as we are talking buses and should add Indianapolis to the list. Indianapolis is using BYD buses for their BRT's to the point the Red line needed more station chargers after it went into service in 2019. They added more chargers to the Blue Line before it open. The 3rd line is under construction.

Detroit QLine is 70% off wire to the point it was having issues staying charge from station to station that have a charging station. They charge the LRV at the downtown station and move the LRV to the charging station north of the last stop and next to the carhouse.

I haven't seen any other NA LRT using batteries, but have in Europe. Most Europe systems I have seen use batteries for short distance.

End of the day, best having charges on the street to keep the buses on the road the full day of service than doing switch off from time to time at a costly deadheading to/from routes. Still need chargers at the garages/yards to allow charging overnight.
 
artemperederii said:
I know this thread is for buses, but I’m curious about any existing information or thoughts on replacing streetcars with battery powered ones, in order to get rid of ugly wire webs in downtown
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Come back in 25 years and ask that question. Same for going duel end for cars and getting rid of loops.

It is not only TTC wires that need to go, but hydro and the cable folks.

Based on my summer month trip, very few systems have ebuses and those that do, have a faction of what TTC has as test bed and this includes large systems. Some very small systems have more than larger ones of all things.
 
artemperederii said:
I know this thread is for buses, but I’m curious about any existing information or thoughts on replacing streetcars with battery powered ones, in order to get rid of ugly wire webs in downtown
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When pigs fly is what I'd say. It would be quite the undertaking for TTC to do so, especially considering traffic downtown. You'd have to include a contingency plan if the battery dies mid route, or even better, what batteries they could use to accomplish this.
 
artemperederii said:
I know this thread is for buses, but I’m curious about any existing information or thoughts on replacing streetcars with battery powered ones, in order to get rid of ugly wire webs in downtown
Click to expand...
The main appeal of battery buses, as opposed to trolley buses which run on external power, is that they offer the flexibility of a regular bus whose power is fully onboard. That appeal is already out the window with any kind of rail vehicle. If the need were to arise for more loops or branching service then maybe the TTC would consider streetcars with the option to (briefly) run on battery for the next generation, but the ugliness of overhead wire would pale in comparison to that of the extra cost and reliability issues for what would be minimal gain in practicality.
 
I really can't express how pleased I am with the TTC finally adopting the "tracked" plug sliding door system for their electric bus orders. They should've done this with the most recent hybrid orders as well...

These doors are so much better than the outward opening doors we had with the VIIs that would get stuck in snowbanks, and the inward opening doors we have now taking more interior space away.

These are the best thing since the rare middle "Bode" doors on YRT's AG300s.

I hope these plug doors become the standard across all agencies receiving Metrolinx funding/joint bus purchases!!!

It's interesting the new Novas have glass on the bottom half of the rear door, while on the New Flyers that section is black.

Different door manufacturer?

It would be so nice have Metrolinx bus purchases be as interchangeable between cities/towns as BCTransit manages...

My question is: Are the rear doors button-operated, or touch-bar? I haven't seen a proper interior photo yet.

Sorry @Northern Light, the rear exterior door buttons are now gone.

Ps. The blue lights on the New Flyers are much lighter than the Novas.
 
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