APTA-2048
Senior Member
The BYD artics in Los Angeles don’t inspire much confidence. I don’t know what was wrong with them, but it took them around 2 years to go into service.
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TTC: Electric and alternative fuel buses
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Steve X
Senior Member
First, Cummins has made indications they will not design an engine to be outdated in 3 years when the forecasted sales is only a small amount, let's say 100-200 units. The US enforces a new EPA standard every 3 years.
Second, the city don't want to buy more hybrids so it doesn't matter if a new engine is offered. The industry sees this trend with big cities and decides they should not offer hybrid artics anymore.
The EV artics are a literal joke. Basically they are adding batteries on the bus to be able to carry all the batteries already on board cause its so heavy. It's like the drone problem. Putting more batteries doesn't mean longer flying time. Till the create lighter batteries, EV artics are destined to fail. Maybe they could go back to trolley artics.
RapidTransit
Active Member
I hear what your saying, but what's going to happen when it comes time to replace the 9000s artic's? Either get 40ft equivalent buses, or like mentioned earlier , go right into EV artic's?
And if EVs for transit agencies aren't as promising , I don't see why Cummins would give up on the hybrid application. If anything, they're better off investing in hybrid than straight diesel. At least hybrid gets you half way to an electric agenda.
I hear rumors about solid state batteries that are lighter in weight and hold a longer charge. But I'm not familiar with that technology, but I hear good reviews about it.
As for trolley artic's, I would think TTC would need a new downtown facility. Or existing like Danforth and Old Eglinton, and build a condo on top like they've done in the states. The facility can hold trolleys and EV buses. But that's me dreaming.
Look at TTC and their BYD. Aren't they still having problems?
This EV technology in commercial vehicles don't appear to be as promising as the automotive industry. Even Tesla has delayed their trucks with issues.
It's not the first time, but TTC might have to go back to straight Diesel, at least for artic's. And even if they went back to diesel artic's now, they'll still have time to meet the 2040 agenda of a green fleet.
Steve X
Senior Member
That's TTC's problem not Cummins/New Flyers. If there is no replacements in 10 years, they would have to either go back to diesel or bite the nail with artic EVs. It could be possible that hybrid artics be offered again if they can develop a better EV.
Hybrid artics are some really expensive buses. In the range of $1.3m a vehicle over the $1m for a diesel. The EV is even worst, around $1.7m. TTC could easily bought 2 diesel standard bus and have money for fuel left over 1 EV artic.
Better batteries will come when there's more money in the market. If the prices don't come down, is it even worth it? Especially if it turns out to be a bunch of lemons.
Voltz
Senior Member
Or we could string overhead wires on major routes, something I believe the TTC has some experience in.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I think what they are currently looking at is having overhead charging infrastructure at stations and layover facilities for battery electric buses.
Steve X
Senior Member
This is probably the most reasonable approach as they won't need an expensive overhead maintenance team.
The downside is dwelling for 10 min so they can charge in an already overcrowded terminal. Hope the bus isn't 20 min late.
smallspy
Senior Member
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
It makes the most sense logically to avoid having buses running back to a garage to recharge. Also most of them have overhead charging added t them no from what I've seen
smallspy
Senior Member
So you're making a guess or assumption then. Nothing based on any fact.
And for the record, it absolutely is not the plan as of right now.
Dan
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Ok. I'll assume that you don't know what it is either as well. If you do then please share it.
smallspy
Senior Member
It's pretty easy to figure out what the TTC is doing by following their monthly board meeting reports and tenders.
All of the buses being purchased are the long-distance type, which are able to operate for more-or-less a full day on the road. They have contracted to install charging stations at all of the garages. They have not put out any bids to install charging infrastructure at any of the stations (although I do agree that it would be a good idea to do so).
So yeah, feel free to come to whatever conclusions you wish to based on that information.
Dan
turbanplanner
Senior Member
Seems like a bad idea, not just because that team is perpetually late but when I visited YVR it was interesting seeing how the trolley busses couldn't really pass each other, not as a big of a deal there but imagine the bunching when you have 10 min frequencies .
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
That doesn't mean that they haven't looked at other alterities as well or places that they can top up the batteries outside of running a bus back to the garage, Steve Munro has mentioned a few times in his blog that they have been looking at other paces to charge them.
drum118
Superstar
Greensburg, Louisville and Nashville have overhead charging stations at terminals, on the street or both. No different to what is found in Europe, other than they are lager compared to Europe. Doing it this way leaves the bus on the route for 24hr that only takes 10 minutes or less to charge or top off a bus as needed. Most terminals have more than one with some having them at all bays.
To me, having them at terminal is a must.