TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Aren't one of the engineering challenges associated with platform screen doors that they stop airflows? I remember reading that station ventilation systems will need to be redesigned if we installed screen doors.
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Aren't one of the engineering challenges associated with platform screen doors that they stop airflows? I remember reading that station ventilation systems will need to be redesigned if we installed screen doors.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
TTM:
I wouldn't be surprised - most of the vent shafts are currently outside of the platform area abutting the tracks, which probably uses the trains acting pistons for airflow within the stations. Seal off the track area, and you might be dealing with ventilation issues.
I think the newer stations are built with mechanical rooms with air handling units - I don't recall the older ones at BD and YUS having the same feature. In any case, this issue can be mitigated by using half-height barriers at stations without such.
AoD
I wouldn't be surprised - most of the vent shafts are currently outside of the platform area abutting the tracks, which probably uses the trains acting pistons for airflow within the stations. Seal off the track area, and you might be dealing with ventilation issues.
I think the newer stations are built with mechanical rooms with air handling units - I don't recall the older ones at BD and YUS having the same feature. In any case, this issue can be mitigated by using half-height barriers at stations without such.
AoD
BMO
Senior Member
Aren't there ventilation shafts all the way along the tunnelled sections of the subway. I don't imagine it would be too much of an issue. It may cause issues with regards to air drag and power consumption, mind you, i'm not an engineer.
To be honest in 2008 when this was brought up I didn't think it was that big of a necessity, but nowadays if you're standing on a majority of the downtown subway platforms at peak hour it's hard not to get a little nervous as the train comes along (due to all the pushing and people on the platforms).
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
BMO:
I already mentioned the possibility of using half-height barriers in my post - and for all intents and purposes it might be the best solution for old stations that are simply not designed to be sealed in. I do think that we are at a point where barriers are warranted - not so much so in their promise of it increasing train frequency but the improvement to reliability during rush hour (by limiting disruptions).
Now if we can only do something about passenger assistance alarms...
AoD
I already mentioned the possibility of using half-height barriers in my post - and for all intents and purposes it might be the best solution for old stations that are simply not designed to be sealed in. I do think that we are at a point where barriers are warranted - not so much so in their promise of it increasing train frequency but the improvement to reliability during rush hour (by limiting disruptions).
Now if we can only do something about passenger assistance alarms...
AoD
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
They could also climate control platforms with full doors.
BMO
Senior Member
Driverless Subway trains? Not in nervous Toronto, TTC head saysl
Can't copy the article, but it essentially talks about how the TTC needs platform doors, battle the union and battle the social stigma of having driverless trains.
Can't copy the article, but it essentially talks about how the TTC needs platform doors, battle the union and battle the social stigma of having driverless trains.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
well we will be dropping a staff member off of every train once ATC comes online. they will really be "driverless", the employee on the train will only be handling door closures.
ehlow
Senior Member
ehlow
Senior Member
That would make sense.
BMO
Senior Member
One will be working the platform giving help and directions, is what I got from the article. These drivers will likely have to be taken out of employment through attrition.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Mr. Byford's commends left me with the impression that there'd be a human driver handling both door operations and moving the vehicle.
I also found his comments about screen doors interesting. He claims that we need screen door for ATC operation. Most of the ATC operations I've seen around the world work fine without screen doors.
I also found his comments about screen doors interesting. He claims that we need screen door for ATC operation. Most of the ATC operations I've seen around the world work fine without screen doors.
rbt
Senior Member
Without changes to the union agreement; yes. We're trying to get that down to just the driver. Miller had them on-board with that change but they've become less cooperative with Ford in charge.
No. He claims we need screen doors to eliminate all staff from the train. ATC is mostly an efficiency improvement (run more trains).
Going staffless works but depends a lot on the insurance company underwriting injury lawsuits giving decent rates. Lawsuits from computer control where the company purposefully removed oversight can be costly. ATC the TTC is installing, as far as I know, does not include obstruction detection (I.e. person or object on the tracks).
Also, some days ATC will fail to work as we'll want drivers available as backup. It's cheaper to employ 100 full time drivers who normally don't do much than to have a single day full subway outage per year.
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ehlow
Senior Member
If ATC is installed but there are still human drivers, do we still get any improvement to frequencies?
rbt
Senior Member
Yes. It's like using auto-pilot on an aircraft while the pilots are still in the cockpit. The human is for rare emergencies, general oversight, and to handle on-the-fly changes.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
I thought that with ATC, they'll keep an employee on the train to handle customer service, emergencies, and any problems on the train.