Transit Fantasy Maps

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm Glad when the eglinton extension to pearson is built this will be all over!

 

[MafaldaBoy]

As requested by some folks on Reddit, here is are current lines drawn in the same map style as my previous fantasy map: http://i.imgur.com/vJzb8D9.png

 

[BurlOak]

It is not clear to me where the 503 starts in the West. Also, it is not clear which routes end at Union Station.

 

[diminutive]

Hmm interesting. I had always heard that a site in the Portlands was under consideration for the yard.



View attachment 10258

This is more what I had in mind. You can see that the station box avoids the foundation of the Dominion building (although admittedly just barely). Based on the grades as well, I have the Yonge line passing overtop of the Spadina-Don Mills line. That may pose a problem coming east from the existing Union Station though. I admit that this would need a more detailed feasibility study than what I have the resources or the expertise to do, haha.

On a similar note, was recently looking around Steve Munro's website and a commenter called Mimmo Briganti proposed decoupling the Yonge & Spadina Lines between Dupont n Spadina Stations while reactivating the wye. This would bring back the interlined services (Finch-Kipling, Finch-Kennedy, Kipling-Kennedy) while the decoupled Spadina line would run through the western edge of downtown before curving across the financial district. From the same commenter, via Transit Toronto, apparently when the wye was operational 85% of Bloor Eastbound riders headed to Queen would around the loop rather then transfer at Bloor-Yonge while 65% of Bloor westbound riders heading south to Queen would use the Wye rather than transfer.

Not sure if this user has a UT account, but would be interested to hear his thoughts.

It's pretty much accepted wisdom that a DRL between Pape n Downtown is the best route, but this DRL-West option (DRL-Spadina?) may well provide more relief for Yonge and Bloor.

 

[cereal]

I think everyone can agree that having the terminus station for the Mississauga Transitway and the Dundas BRT at Kipling is a ridiculous idea. I personally prefer the Honeydale Mall location (diagonally opposite Cloverdale Mall) just on the East side of 427, but this could work too.

In your map, it is easy for the buses to get off from 427, but there would be some effort to re-enter the 427 northbound. Maybe even Dundas BRT buses could "hop" onto 427 to use this new off ramp. Using Honeydale, it would be the other way around - harder off, easier on. It would also be much less expensive to only extend the line less than 2 km to Honeydale, which could be done entirely at grade. an extension to Sherway, with the required tunnelling, would be left for a later extension.

I agree. The extension needs easy direct access to the 427. The 427 will most likely get BRT lanes at some point, and will act as a link between subway and the Mississauga east/west BRT line terminus at 427/401. Too bad mississauga is so conservative, they could easily convert many of their major arteries into BRT lanes feeding GO and subway.

 

[doady]

I agree. The extension needs easy direct access to the 427. The 427 will most likely get BRT lanes at some point, and will act as a link between subway and the Mississauga east/west BRT line terminus at 427/401. Too bad mississauga is so conservative, they could easily convert many of their major arteries into BRT lanes feeding GO and subway.

How many major arteries in Toronto have BRT? Just wondering.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

How many major arteries in Toronto have BRT? Just wondering.

Asked some friends, did some math, read some transit reports and the answer I came up with is somewhere around zero.

 

[gweed123]

Asked some friends, did some math, read some transit reports and the answer I came up with is somewhere around zero.

Zero would be the correct answer, even for BRT Light. The only corridor that comes even close is Don Mills, because of the HOV lanes. But even that uses standard TTC buses and has stops way too close together. If any corridor could be turned into a BRT corridor for a few million though, it would be Don Mills. Slap on some paint to make the HOV lanes buses only lanes, use the new artics on that route, and put in some new nicer shelters that are further apart.

 

[LNahid2000]

What about the 196 York U Rocket?

 

[doady]

196 York U Rocket uses it's own road not an existing arterial so it doesn't count, otherwise the Mississauga Transitway would count too.

Zero would be the correct answer, even for BRT Light. The only corridor that comes even close is Don Mills, because of the HOV lanes. But even that uses standard TTC buses and has stops way too close together. If any corridor could be turned into a BRT corridor for a few million though, it would be Don Mills. Slap on some paint to make the HOV lanes buses only lanes, use the new artics on that route, and put in some new nicer shelters that are further apart.

For bus only lanes, you'd need more than paint though. HOV or bus-only lanes in the outer lanes are impossible to enforce. Believe it or not, cars actually need to use those outer lanes. You want bus only lanes, they have to be in the middle of the road.

 

[DKsan]

196 York U Rocket uses it's own road not an existing arterial so it doesn't count, otherwise the Mississauga Transitway would count too.

By all technicalities, a BRT doesn't need to stick to existing roads.

 

[LNahid2000]

196 York U Rocket uses it's own road not an existing arterial so it doesn't count, otherwise the Mississauga Transitway would count too.

It does have its own lanes on Dufferin between Finch and Sheppard.

 

[doady]

By all technicalities, a BRT doesn't need to stick to existing roads.

I know. I was just comparing to Toronto to Mississauga in terms of building BRTs along existing arterials, because cereal labeled Mississauga as "conservative" for not building BRTs existing arterials.

But yes, the Mississauga Transitway and the Hurontario-Main LRT aren't exactly "conservative" plans. The Hurontario LRT isn't even going to connect to the TTC. For a post-war suburb to build a $1.6 billion light rail line like that is very ambitious if anything. I think it says something about Mississauga Transit too, when their busiest corridor has no direct connection at all to the City of Toronto.

It does have its own lanes on Dufferin between Finch and Sheppard.

I stand corrected then. But it's still not a Dufferin BRT, amirite? It's more akin to the Mississauga Transitway.

 

[BurlOak]

On a similar note, was recently looking around Steve Munro's website and a commenter called Mimmo Briganti proposed decoupling the Yonge & Spadina Lines between Dupont n Spadina Stations while reactivating the wye. This would bring back the interlined services (Finch-Kipling, Finch-Kennedy, Kipling-Kennedy) while the decoupled Spadina line would run through the western edge of downtown before curving across the financial district. From the same commenter, via Transit Toronto, apparently when the wye was operational 85% of Bloor Eastbound riders headed to Queen would around the loop rather then transfer at Bloor-Yonge while 65% of Bloor westbound riders heading south to Queen would use the Wye rather than transfer.

Not sure if this user has a UT account, but would be interested to hear his thoughts.

It's pretty much accepted wisdom that a DRL between Pape n Downtown is the best route, but this DRL-West option (DRL-Spadina?) may well provide more relief for Yonge and Bloor.

I found a figure of the old interlining (from Wiki) and added the proposal by Mimmo Briganti, as I understand it. It does seem kind of difficult to make the turn onto Queen due to large buildings near the intersection.

It seems that the Spadina station on the Spadina line, along with a portion of Spadina track between Dupont and Spadina, would have to be abandoned (at least for revenue service). A new portion of Spadina track would be required to go under the Bloor line (it looks like the existing Spadina station is too close to Bloor and the new Spadina line could not go under Bloor) and a new Spadina station is needed as well.

I would think that train frequencies are much higher now than they were in the 1960's, so it may be harder to do interlining than it did before. On the other hand, we now have automatic train control (or can get it) so it may be easier to implement the interlining. I would also guess that interlinng would be much more popular now than it was in the 1960's. Then, the alternative was to transfer at a spacious Yonge-Bloor Station and simply switch lines. Now, due to crowding, that transfer is much more difficult. Also, with train frequency increased, the wait needed to take the next train which is going to your destination would be that much less.

I think unless something revolutionary like this is done, Yonge-Bloor will continue to be the bottleneck regardless of the DRL. Whether this is the solution or not, I am not sure - but it is quite an interesting idea.

 

[gweed123]

For bus only lanes, you'd need more than paint though. HOV or bus-only lanes in the outer lanes are impossible to enforce. Believe it or not, cars actually need to use those outer lanes. You want bus only lanes, they have to be in the middle of the road.

Not true at all. All of the bus lanes in Ottawa are shoulder lanes, and they work just fine. For right turns, they allow cars to pass through the lane at dedicated points in order to access the right turn lane. For an example, look at the intersection of Woodroffe and Meadowlands or Woodroffe and Knoxdale in west end Ottawa. As for enforcement, all you need is the occasional cop parked out in a key spot. I've seen it many times coming home from work.