felix123
Active Member
It's a fantasy map thread...
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Bureaucromancer
Active Member
Good path to retaining the Dufferin / Cherry routes. Although I now realize I’ve forgotten to stick a king surface route on here (though it’s probably skippable with a properly local oriented subway). The combination route is definitely longer than ideal
I wouldn’t call this a skip of Scarborough GO - though in a specific design some deviation would be nice.
As far as Dixie, I’d absolutely support rerouting that way if there is some other 427 rapid transit, so in other word, it probably is a better option.
Edit: reworked the map to show this, and threw in a couple other things I'd really like for the streetcar network.
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blacksquirrels
Active Member
a GO tunnel either under Wellington or the GO corridor itself makes more sense.
SashaLemon
Active Member
But we can't get rid of street parking in a major downtown core that already has probably some of the highest amounts of underground parking for any given downtown in the world!! That would be impossible! Think about the businesses that will shut down due to not having space to accommodate exactly two cars in front of them instead of allowing for a vastly improved streetcar line able to transport thousands of people a day!
Allandale25
Senior Member
Latest version of this fantasy map by this Twitter user:
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
All these fantasy corridors and connectors are added, but no "407 Line"?
Sunnyside
Active Member
Generally I like this, but I have some questions and comments. First, what is the diversion going around Dundurn-Locke for? And where would that realistically go? There isn't exactly room around Dundas. Some of these lines are too close together, for visual purposes- Richmond Hill and Stouffville (now just tracks for other services, but I digress) are not the same line, and should have some distance between them. With the number of services in the east, I think you are going to have to further distort the GO map from here. There is not really room to cram this all in without it looking congested. Because many of these are interlined services, why not make the strokes narrower when they converge? I understand you want to show the higher levels of service, but the USRC and RH-Stouffville corridor(s) look kind of silly being this large. Essentially, if you are going to make the map geographically inaccurate, you may as well try to space things out to be as visually appealing and representative of the user experience as possible.
blacksquirrels
Active Member
nice map. this type of extensive GO transit network would definitely require a tunnel through the core to relieve Union though.
AlxOptimism
New Member
I've noticed some dead zones in Fantasy Maps and it makes me really curious. The two biggest ones would be North Scarborough and Jane & Lawrence/Downsview/PeloPark-Humberlea. I see many suburban areas prioritized over these despite the modest density.
Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.
North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).
I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.
North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).
I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
TossYourJacket
Senior Member
Cut and Cover tunnels don't win votes. Building transit in Scarborough has become more about winning votes than actually serving the people of Scarborough. So any extension beyond the SSE would unfortunately be done via a deep bored tunnel, and cost an absurd amount of money as a result.
That said, I do agree with your point that northern Scarborough is ignored on many fantasy transit maps. That said, building a series of BRT lines on major arterials might be better than a single subway extension.
DirectionNorth
Active Member
There's been some debate about how to build a Jane corridor. Some, including myself, have suggested a western Ontario Line extension onto Jane. We will see whether the line has enough capacity for that in 2030.
A Malvern extension of the SRT would have been a good way to extend train service into the heart of Northern Scarborough. It's too late now, that train has left the station (the planet?).
I think that with that in mind, a network of BRT-light serving Scarborough (and indeed the whole city), and feeding into a Sheppard East Subway and SSE, would be the best solution going forwards. This would include Stouffville GO as RER, another service which would allow for more connections with fare integration (but that's another topic that we could spend hundreds of pages talking about).
Sunnyside
Active Member
There are many, many areas that transit fantasy maps here omit.
11th
Senior Member
If done right, from McCowan, line 4 can easily be extended to serve Malvern without much tunneling.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Here's my fantasy for how the planned all-day GO train services would be organized. Rather than displaying 'lines' (e.g. Lakeshore West, Lakeshore East) with various services patterns which are not shown on the map, this map displays 'services' (e.g. RE1, R1, S1). This makes it much easier for people to understand the different stopping patterns, as well as the through running which occurs at Union.
This organisation is inspired by DB's Regio and S-Bahn services in Germany. All services can be operated on the infrastructure which is already planned or existing.
Local services stop at every station along the route. They typically operate every 15 minutes, though on the outer edge of some routes, the service drops to every 30 minutes and alternates with Regional trains to form a combined 15-minute service. They are always operated by electric trains.
Regional services make limited stops within the core service area, and then make all stops in the outer suburbs. They typically operate every 30 minutes. They may be operated by electric or diesel trains.
Regional Express services connect major cities and only stop at key hubs while they overlap with other services. They typically operate every hour. They are always operated by diesel trains.
I also renamed several stations for a couple reasons.
Specify community where station is located:
Avoid confusion with similarly named station:
This organisation is inspired by DB's Regio and S-Bahn services in Germany. All services can be operated on the infrastructure which is already planned or existing.
Local services stop at every station along the route. They typically operate every 15 minutes, though on the outer edge of some routes, the service drops to every 30 minutes and alternates with Regional trains to form a combined 15-minute service. They are always operated by electric trains.
Regional services make limited stops within the core service area, and then make all stops in the outer suburbs. They typically operate every 30 minutes. They may be operated by electric or diesel trains.
Regional Express services connect major cities and only stop at key hubs while they overlap with other services. They typically operate every hour. They are always operated by diesel trains.
I also renamed several stations for a couple reasons.
Specify community where station is located:
| Old Name | New Name | Notes |
| Casablanca | Grimsby | |
| Confederation | Stoney Creek | |
| West Harbour | Hamilton Harbour | also avoid confusion with East Harbour |
| East Harbour | Toronto Harbour | also avoid confusion with West Harbour |
| Allandale Waterfront | Barrie Allandale |
Avoid confusion with similarly named station:
| Old Name | New Name | Notes |
| Scarborough | Scarborough Junction | avoid confusion with Scarborough Centre |
| Eglinton | Eglinton East | avoid confusion with Eglinton (TTC) |
| Woodbine | Pearson Junction | avoid confusion with Woodbine (TTC) |
| Mount Pleasant | Brampton West | avoid confusion with Mount Pleasant (TTC) |
| Bramalea | Bramalea South | avoid confusion with Bramalea terminal |
| Oshawa | Oshawa South | avoid confusion with Oshawa terminal / Oshawa Centre station |
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blacksquirrels
Active Member
great map! this is exactly what Toronto (the GTA) needs.
if you combined the Local (red) and Regional (light green) lines into a Toronto S-Bahn network with 6 trains per hour/per line this theoretical system would rival the Berlin S-Bahn network. this is also very realistic, unlike most fantasy maps. the only missing element would be fare integration, which has to happen eventually.
Berlin S-Bahn Network
System Length: 340 km
Number of Lines: 16 (including branches); 9 (excluding branches)
Number of Stations: 168
Number of Trains (per hour/ bi-directional): 96
Core Lines: 3
Daily Ridership: 1,500,000 (average weekday)
Annual Ridership: 478,000,000
Fare: unified fare system
Toronto S-Bahn Network
System Length: 340 km*
Number of Lines: 6
Number of Stations: 70 (56 current + 14 planned/theoretical)
Number of Trains (per hour/ bi-directional): 36
Core Lines: 1
Daily Ridership: ?
Annual Ridership: ?
Fare: ?
*(includes electrified extensions to Old Elm, Bowmanville, Hamilton Harbour, Brampton West, but only to Bradford on the Barrie Line)
TTC
1 - Yonge
2 - Bloor
3 - Ontario
4 - Shepard
5 - Eglinton LRT
6 - Finch LRT
Toronto S-Bahn: 6 trains per hour (bi-directional)
S1 - Lakeshore (Burlington - Oshawa)
S2 - Lakeshore X (Hamilton Harbour - Bowmanville)
S3 - Milton - Union
S4 - Airport - Unionville
S5 - Brampton West - Old Elm
S6 - Bradford - Union
GO Regional: 1 to 2 trains per hour
R1- Niagara Falls
R2 - Hamilton Centre
R3 - London
R4 - Kitchener
R5 - Barrie
R6 - Richmond Hill