Transit Fantasy Maps

[BurlOak]

The concept is impressive. A few discussion points though:

1) In the south, it might not be necessary to go as far as King. If the goal is to limit the cost of building rapid transit, then Dundas may be a cheaper option for the downtown section of the "Scarborough" line. Dundas is close enough to some of the existing destinations, plus the density is very likely to start spilling north as the space south of Queen gets used up.

2) Hydro might need some push to allow RT in their corridors. Though, the provincial government should be able to legislate that.

3) Keeping the SRT running (while the new line is getting built) might not be an option, because of the SRT's age. To my understanding, SRT is more or less fit to operate till ~ 2026, after that might have to be closed anyway. If so, then it might not be necessary to route the new line in a way that avoids overlaps with the existing SRT route.

1. I thought about this to some degree. The benefits of going farther south were; a) additional interchanges with DRL (although that also means more cost), b) can cut through St. James Park to make the curve (although there's a parking lot at the NW corner of Jarvis/Dundas, c) better coverage. Since this is phase 2, we can wait 15 to 20 year before construction needed, and we might have a better idea of which way the city is growing.
2. It's not only permission for the Gatineau hydro corridor - which I agree with you can be solved - It's that the corridor looks pretty full and too close to it's edge means you are overlooking back yards.
3. When the time comes, you can always stretch out the closure.

 

[doady]

Updated my Mississauga map.



There are still some major gaps in the grid and I tried to address that, by straightening out routes (e.g. Creditview, Kennedy) and completing/uniting broken corridors to fill in the gaps (e.g. a connection between Winston Churchill and Burnhamthorpe buses).

 

[Divas S.]

^^ what app did you use to make that map

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Updated my Mississauga map.



There are still some major gaps in the grid and I tried to address that, by straightening out routes (e.g. Creditview, Kennedy) and completing/uniting broken corridors to fill in the gaps (e.g. a connection between Winston Churchill and Burnhamthorpe buses).

I never understood why the 5 Dixie went onto Ogden Ave. Sounds a lot more direct to take Dixie up that way instead.

 

[doady]

^^ what app did you use to make that map

Illustrator CS2. It doesn't work very well anymore. I couldn't even add more text to the map due to missing fonts or something. So I just downloaded Inkscape a few hours ago, I am planning to test that instead.

I never understood why the 5 Dixie went onto Ogden Ave. Sounds a lot more direct to take Dixie up that way instead.

Dixie Road south of the mall is just golf courses, there is nothing there, no ridership. So Odgen Avenue with all the houses and Gordon Graydon was a better choice because they didn't want empty buses.

Keep in mind, 5 Dixie was not always this busy. It only in the late 90s/early 00s that the ridership suddenly skyrocketed and overcrowding became a serious problem, to the point that the route is now 100% articulated buses and they had to add 185 Dixie Express to provide some relief. Empty buses is obviously no longer a concern for Dixie, but when the route was first conceived in the 60s or 70s it was a different situation.

What happened to 5 Dixie you can now see happening to 39 Britannia as well. The 39 has become so overcrowded that they are now using articulated buses for it. A route with only 25-35 minute frequency all day is using articulated buses.That's why they are planning to take the route off of Lisgar Dr. The 39 is supposed to be just a minor route but it has suddenly become a major route, so now they have to change it.

 

[BurlOak]

A bit of an overview.

View attachment 197591

I found some info on Costing from Vancouver - and will refine the cost estimate here.
McCowan to Thorncliffe = 15 km and 13 Stations. That's:
15km x $120M/km = $1.8B for elevated rail.
13 sta. x $120M/sta. = $1.6B for stations.
15 km x $50M/km = $0.8B for train cars.
Total = $4.2B*.
Extension to Marlvern. 6km and 4 stations. Thus, $1.5B.
Extension to Sherbourne. 6km and 1 station. Thus, $0.9B.

* - My previous estimate was $3.2B - but that was reusing 5km of SRT Track and 5 stations (although I did have some refurbishing costs included).
Anyway, this $4.2B for 15km and 13 Stations compares to the $3.6B for 6km and 1 Station (the Tory plan), or $5B (estimate) and 3 Station Ford plan.

 

[north-of-anything]

[Illustrator CS2] doesn't work very well anymore. I couldn't even add more text to the map due to missing fonts or something. So I just downloaded Inkscape a few hours ago, I am planning to test that instead.

I use Inkscape whenever I want to make vector-based maps, and for that purpose I definitely recommend it. It should be able to use all the fonts you have installed on your login.

 

[north-of-anything]

Alright. Well this one I didn't draw it out, but it has a fairly straightforward route. This is a proposed LRT route which would use the Finch West yard and also replace the 512 so streetcars can return south of Bloor.

The Jane-Clair line's northern terminus is at the Highway 407 station, which has a huge footprint where an LRT terminus could be put in. I don't think there is sufficient demand to extend it to Highway 7, especially if they can easily transfer to Line 1.

Southbound on Jane, the stops are as follows: Hullmar/Steeles, Shoreham, York Gate, Jane and Finch, Grandravine, Oakdale/Sheppard, Exbury, Wilson, Falstaff, Maple Leaf/Church, Lawrence, Trethewey, and West Park (at Cobalt/Weston/Nickle).

The line continues southeast on Weston, stopping at Eglinton, Rogers, and Keele. At Keele the line turns east onto St. Clair, with the following stops: Silverthorn, Caledonia Park, Lansdowne, Dufferin, Oakwood, Arlington, Wychwood, and Wells Hill/St Clair West. An extension to Spadina, Avenue, and Yonge can be conditional on lots of upzoning between Heath Street and Balmoral Avenue.

 

[Jaye101]

This map combines John Tory's Eglinton East LRT with a early 90's proposal to extend the SRT to Malvern Town Centre to create one single line.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Alright. Well this one I didn't draw it out, but it has a fairly straightforward route. This is a proposed LRT route which would use the Finch West yard and also replace the 512 so streetcars can return south of Bloor.

The Jane-Clair line's northern terminus is at the Highway 407 station, which has a huge footprint where an LRT terminus could be put in. I don't think there is sufficient demand to extend it to Highway 7, especially if they can easily transfer to Line 1.

Southbound on Jane, the stops are as follows: Hullmar/Steeles, Shoreham, York Gate, Jane and Finch, Grandravine, Oakdale/Sheppard, Exbury, Wilson, Falstaff, Maple Leaf/Church, Lawrence, Trethewey, and West Park (at Cobalt/Weston/Nickle).

The line continues southeast on Weston, stopping at Eglinton, Rogers, and Keele. At Keele the line turns east onto St. Clair, with the following stops: Silverthorn, Caledonia Park, Lansdowne, Dufferin, Oakwood, Arlington, Wychwood, and Wells Hill/St Clair West. An extension to Spadina, Avenue, and Yonge can be conditional on lots of upzoning between Heath Street and Balmoral Avenue.

Sounds great.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Alright. Well this one I didn't draw it out, but it has a fairly straightforward route. This is a proposed LRT route which would use the Finch West yard and also replace the 512 so streetcars can return south of Bloor.

The Jane-Clair line's northern terminus is at the Highway 407 station, which has a huge footprint where an LRT terminus could be put in. I don't think there is sufficient demand to extend it to Highway 7, especially if they can easily transfer to Line 1.

Southbound on Jane, the stops are as follows: Hullmar/Steeles, Shoreham, York Gate, Jane and Finch, Grandravine, Oakdale/Sheppard, Exbury, Wilson, Falstaff, Maple Leaf/Church, Lawrence, Trethewey, and West Park (at Cobalt/Weston/Nickle).

The line continues southeast on Weston, stopping at Eglinton, Rogers, and Keele. At Keele the line turns east onto St. Clair, with the following stops: Silverthorn, Caledonia Park, Lansdowne, Dufferin, Oakwood, Arlington, Wychwood, and Wells Hill/St Clair West. An extension to Spadina, Avenue, and Yonge can be conditional on lots of upzoning between Heath Street and Balmoral Avenue.

But why reguage the 512? That seems like a costly waste of money. Just remove some stops from the 512 and connect it with the Jane LRT, but have it use TTC streetcar stock and run on the TTC gauge. Number it as 535 or 515 or something. We'll eventually need a new carhouse anyways and adding Jane to the 'streetcar' network could really help with moving LRV storage north of Bloor. That could help the case for returning streetcars to Rogers Road etc.

 

[north-of-anything]

But why reguage the 512? That seems like a costly waste of money. Just remove some stops from the 512 and connect it with the Jane LRT, but have it use TTC streetcar stock and run on the TTC gauge. Number it as 535 or 515 or something. We'll eventually need a new carhouse anyways and adding Jane to the 'streetcar' network could really help with moving LRV storage north of Bloor. That could help the case for returning streetcars to Rogers Road etc.

I don't really know anything about the streetcar network, as I've never been on a streetcar, but I was eyeing the fact that the MSF for Finch West will be right next to Finch and Jane. The only other uses I can think of it would be to support a huge expansion of Finch West towards Renforth AND Seneca College, or for a cross-Etobicoke LRT.

I would prefer future streetcar expansion to take place along the waterfront and east of the Don River (Coxwell, Woodbine, Kingston in Scarborough, Danforth east of Main Street). I'm not even sure where on Jane a new carhouse could go, except for at Jane/Denison or Scarlett Woods.

 

[micheal_can]

But why reguage the 512? That seems like a costly waste of money. Just remove some stops from the 512 and connect it with the Jane LRT, but have it use TTC streetcar stock and run on the TTC gauge. Number it as 535 or 515 or something. We'll eventually need a new carhouse anyways and adding Jane to the 'streetcar' network could really help with moving LRV storage north of Bloor. That could help the case for returning streetcars to Rogers Road etc.

Over time, would it make sense to regauge the entire network to standard gauge so that we do not need specialized stuff?

 

[44 North]

I don't really know anything about the streetcar network, as I've never been on a streetcar, but I was eyeing the fact that the MSF for Finch West will be right next to Finch and Jane.

Hmm. Not sure about that. Sounds to me like your weekend itinerary should be to come down and ride a few lines.

 

[Jaye101]

Over time, would it make sense to regauge the entire network to standard gauge so that we do not need specialized stuff?

You wouldn't be able to reconfigure the streetcar network to run standard LRVs as the turning radii would result in tracks on the sidewalk at many points in the network.