News   Jul 29, 2024
 433     0 
News   Jul 29, 2024
 143     0 
News   Jul 29, 2024
 545     0 

Transit Fantasy Maps

I wasn't suggesting all trains would turn on Sheppard but maybe 1/4 to maintain the current Sheppard frequency. I was wondering if doing that could increase the frequency on Yonge south of Sheppard. I guess I didn't realize such a high proportion of Yonge riders go north of Sheppard.
 
It will be very difficult to interline the Sheppard line with Yonge. Northbound trains will be able to turn east using the existing connection (but would miss Sheppard station entirely, and the next stop after York Mills will be Bayview). For the westbound Sheppard trains, there is no grade-separate connection to turn south. Using the same single track for both directions would completely mess up the Yonge line.

If interlining of Sheppard is possible at all, it would be with southbound Spadina line. If Sheppard is extended west, and turns south-west around Faywood, it can emerge near the Wilson Yard where the Spadina tracks run on surface. It might be possible for the westbound / southbound Sheppard trains to go under the Spadina tracks and emerge on the other side. Then, the Wilson station (which is elevated rather than underground) can presumably be expanded to handle both Spadina - Vaughan and Spadina - Sheppard branches.

However, the cost of adding 4 km to the Sheppard line is substantial, and I do not think this should be a high priority.
 
It will be very difficult to interline the Sheppard line with Yonge. Northbound trains will be able to turn east using the existing connection (but would miss Sheppard station entirely, and the next stop after York Mills will be Bayview). For the westbound Sheppard trains, there is no grade-separate connection to turn south. Using the same single track for both directions would completely mess up the Yonge line.

If interlining of Sheppard is possible at all, it would be with southbound Spadina line. If Sheppard is extended west, and turns south-west around Faywood, it can emerge near the Wilson Yard where the Spadina tracks run on surface. It might be possible for the westbound / southbound Sheppard trains to go under the Spadina tracks and emerge on the other side. Then, the Wilson station (which is elevated rather than underground) can presumably be expanded to handle both Spadina - Vaughan and Spadina - Sheppard branches.

However, the cost of adding 4 km to the Sheppard line is substantial, and I do not think this should be a high priority.
Not just that, but the West Don River valley is rather deep.
 
Decided to update my fantasy map. Most of the stuff has been discussed in various threads, but I figured I would put it into one collective spot:

MoveToronto_v8.jpg


https://www.dropbox.com/s/xafniw8anlbgc8s/MoveToronto_v8.jpg
 
Last edited:
Not just that, but the West Don River valley is rather deep.

I think this subway would switch to above grade on its own bridge to cross the West Don, just as with the Eglinton line. The Eglinton line would obviously be a south side alignement. For Sheppard, I was thinking more of a north side alignment, but it would require about 10 to 15' to be acquired from the backs of the properties on Roycrest Ave. The bridge itself would probably only cost about $20M.

The Sheppard Subway bridge for the East Don was more complex. You had to go under Leslie and over the Don in a very short distance. That bridge was within the flood plain and had to be designed for water pressure forces. This bridge should be high enough with the portal being just west of Brentwood Ave (Easton Road). It would almost certainly be built as cut-and-cover from the end of the tail tracks (Welbeck Road) to Bathurst Station - with the exception of the bridge of course. This would leave only 2km remaining to reach Dufferin and I am sure it would be much less expensive using shallower cut-and-cover rather than tunnelling.
 
Decided to update my fantasy map. Most of the stuff has been discussed in various threads, but I figured I would put it into one collective spot:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xafniw8anlbgc8s/MoveToronto_v8.jpg

I really like your map (especially the blue on Eglinton, and your DRL treatment with the two branches), but I just can't get over the Frankensteinesque Sheppard-Finch line. And other than that, I think there's too many branches here there and everywhere. I also find the lack of subway in Mississauga disturbing. Especially considering that you've shortened Bloor-Danforth, people can't use the ZOMG it's too long for a subway excuse anymore (despite the fact that YUS is waaaaaay longer than a subway to MCC would be).
 
Last edited:
I really like your map (especially the blue on Eglinton, and your DRL treatment with the two branches), but I just can't get over the Frankensteinesque Sheppard-Finch line. And other than that, I think there's too many branches here there and everywhere. I also find the lack of subway in Mississauga disturbing. Especially considering that you've shortened Bloor-Danforth, people can't use the ZOMG it's too long for a subway excuse anymore (despite the fact that YUS is waaaaaay longer than a subway to MCC would be).

I tried my best to make use of existing funded projects, with none of the currently funded projects being cancelled or significantly altered. The Sheppard-Finch LRT is an attempt to make two less than ideal lines into something that would actually be useful.

As for the subway to MCC thing, there actually is. There's a GO REX branch that runs from just east of Cooksville Station into the MCC Terminal. It's not an extension of Bloor-Danforth, but IMO it's actually better, because it will arrive downtown wayyy faster, and will still allow people to transfer at Kipling if their destination is along Bloor-Danforth.
 
Hey Gweed, questions about some alignment choices:

Why Donlands instead of Pape?
Why Dufferin instead of Roncesvalles? (I consider Sunnyside to be an incredibly important transfer node)
Is there even room for an LRT ROW on Queen between Ronces and Dufferin? Or an interchange station at Dufferin/Queen?
 
Hey Gweed, questions about some alignment choices:

Why Donlands instead of Pape?

The reason I chose Donlands is because of the easy yard access. With Donlands, the existing Greenwood yard can become the DRL yard, with a new Bloor-Danforth yard being built at Honeydale (along with a new integrated TTC, MiWay, and GO terminus). There isn't an obvious point along the DRL route for a yard (or an inexpensive piece of land), but there is enormous potential at Honeydale.

Also, there will need to be a significant reconfiguration of whatever Bloor-Danforth station is chosen as the interchange point with the DRL. By choosing Donlands, that's a much easier station to either partially or completely close in order to reconfigure the station. It has low ridership as it is, and the couple of bus routes that end there can easily be rerouted to Pape or Greenwood. Ditto for walk-ins.

Why Dufferin instead of Roncesvalles? (I consider Sunnyside to be an incredibly important transfer node)

Or an interchange station at Dufferin/Queen?

I chose Dufferin because it's an incredibly busy bus route. The southern portion of the route has no potential for anything on-street, and putting a streetcar there in mixed traffic to provide extra is highly unlikely. Roncesvalles may be busy, but at least it has a streetcar route.

It's also a few KM shorter of a route than going up Roncesvalles. Also, with Roncesvalles you run into a problem: there isn't really an alignment north of Bloor that doesn't duplicate the rail corridor (and thus duplicates the GO REX service). By going up Dufferin, you're able to run under Dufferin until Dupont, and then cut diagonally across through the hydro corridor, then through Earlscourt Park, then the hydro corridor until Rogers, then up Rogers to the rail corridor for the last stretch into Mount Dennis. This gets you a lot more coverage over midwestern Toronto.

Also, Dufferin is an ideal location for a western transit hub at Dufferin & Queen. A subway line, an LRT line, a streetcar line, and 4 GO REX routes. It would no doubt be a complicated engineering feat, but so is the dig-down at Union, or the 2nd platform at Union subway station.

Is there even room for an LRT ROW on Queen between Ronces and Dufferin?

It would be tunnelled from Roncesvalles to Dufferin under Queen, very similarly to what is being done on Eglinton now. In essence, all LRT traffic from the southwestern side of Toronto would be feeding into the new Parkdale transit hub. It also sets up as eastward extension of the LRT under Queen to replace the streetcar service (eventually). Again, with similar specs to what's being done on Eglinton.

All very good questions though, and certainly ones that should be asked.

The biggest mental battle I'm fighting right now is what to do with the Don Mills BRT. Ending it at Seneca is a logical terminus, by I also think it would do a lot of good if it could be extended into York Region. I'm just not sure what the best alignment to do that would be. Or would it be better to do another BRT along McCowan from Sheppard-McCowan connecting to Markham GO?
 
Last edited:
anyone ever think they should just rename wilson/york mills / ellesmere into a single name? same with kingston road / highway 2 / dundas / king in durham.
 
Interesting. Don't you think that having LRTs all of both Sheppard and Finch is a bit of overkill though? Especially considering that on both Lawrence and Wilson/York Mills/Ellesmere there's nothing.

Well I have LRT on Finch and all of sheppard is the subway. My logic is connecting to Pickering with the subway will provide more subways to justify ridership.

anyone ever think they should just rename wilson/york mills / ellesmere into a single name? same with kingston road / highway 2 / dundas / king in durham.
what do you think of my map?
 
I'm going to be honest, you have a lot of redundant corridors there. Sheppard into Pickering will sit empty, as it will west of Downsview. (mind you the entire line will be empty in general, but those areas barely justify BRT yet alone subway) Bloor danforth into MCC is a bit of a convoluted route, and would be better served by a GO tunnel with 15 minute service anyway. I would end Bloor at Sherway Gardens, or if you have to bring it to MCC have it go back up to the rail corridor and have it follow that to Hurontario instead. Finch LRT is overkill east of Yonge, BRT is fine, and even that isn't needed if you have a sheppard subway. DRL probably runs too far north on the west side, it should probably end at eglinton based on demand. Having a Kennedy LRT, Scarborough subway, and markham LRT within 4km of each other is overkill as well. Scarborough subway would handle the demand just fine. The kipling LRT is interesting and is the only major north south corridor that doesn't already have a proposal in some kind for, but it may be better on islington. That would have to be determined by a proper study though. Langstaff and Langstaff south seems a bit silly as well..

My opinion, though mind you the current setup planned with the DRL running to Eglinton on both sides and the unfunded transit city LRTs (shortened for the DRL replacement in some sections) is essentially a built out network for me for the forseeable future, so much more than that seems way too overkill for me. Start focusing on streetcar extensions and network expansion into the 905 after that.
 

Back
Top