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Transit City Plan

Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 95 79.2%

  • Ford City

    Votes: 25 20.8%
  • Total voters
    120
Other than the Eglinton Crosstown, Transit City is currently unfunded -- meaning it's mostly dead.

Not completely dead, but mostly dead.

If money becomes available, it's not impossible that some in council may want to direct it to revive one or more of the LRT lines rather than, for example, have it go to Sheppard or whatever new plan Mayor Chris Farley has latched on to.
 
TonyV said:
I get the gut feeling that Transit City is not dead. I think Council may have found its collective chops.
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The mayor has 100% control over the agenda. Waterfront went through Executive Council and had to be ratified (which it wasn't) by city council. The swing happened during this gap.

Surface LRT will be back on the table at some point as a higher order transit alternative (operating costs pretty will demand it) but possibly not until after Vaughan or Mississauga builds theirs.
 
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The original TC scheme has some efficiency issues that wasn't addressed well unfortunately (particularly the way it handle left turns lanes). Well, whatever happens, Sheppard won't see any higher order transit for awhile. As hare-brained the original TC scheme for the route was, I am sure the opponents are satisified that they won't be seeing any improvements for at least awhile to come.

AoD
 
If any elements of Transit City are resurrected, it will be either the SLRT extension to Malvern, or the FWLRT. The SLRT extension was chopped from the ESLRT for purely budgetary reasons, and the FWLRT is the only TC line other than Eglinton that still exists in some form in the Province's short-term transit plan (as 'enhanced bus service').

SELRT is dead. The Jane LRT, Don Mills LRT, and SMLRT are dead (were they ever really alive?). The only other one that may be revived in the medium-term is the WWLRT, and even that is a long shot.
 
gweed123 said:
If any elements of Transit City are resurrected, it will be either the SLRT extension to Malvern, or the FWLRT. The SLRT extension was chopped from the ESLRT for purely budgetary reasons, and the FWLRT is the only TC line other than Eglinton that still exists in some form in the Province's short-term transit plan (as 'enhanced bus service').

SELRT is dead. The Jane LRT, Don Mills LRT, and SMLRT are dead (were they ever really alive?). The only other one that may be revived in the medium-term is the WWLRT, and even that is a long shot.
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Until such a time as a single body has authority to raise revenue, plan routes and construct them without any other bodies interference, the only real status of transit projects is "under construction" or "not under construction".

In our current system, where a line can be announced, approved and funded instantly, or can sit on the planning books for 100s of years, nothing is ever dead.
 
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Jonny5 said:
Until such a time as a single body has authority to raise revenue, plan routes and construct them without any other bodies interference, the only real status of transit projects is "under construction" or "not under construction".

In our current system, where a line can be announced, approved and funded instantly, or can sit on the planning books for 100s of years, nothing is ever dead.
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I disagree. In my view, there are 5 stages that any transit project goes through:

1) Pipe-dream: Talked about, but that's about it.
2) Planned: It has been put into either an OP or into a TMP, has been briefly studied.
3) Funded: A funding arrangement has been determined, and a timeline has been prepared. More detailed engineering and planning studies begin.
4) Construction: Money comes through, and shovels actually get into the ground.
5) Completed: Open for business.

Until a project hits Stage 3, in my books it might as well be in Stage 1. Only half of Transit City ever reached Stage 3, and about 1/4 of it will likely reach Stage 4.
 
Revive Transit City, Miller urges


The entire Transit City network could have been delivered by 2020 with the first line ready by 2015, Miller said. But it’s not too late to turn back.

“The plan is there, the environmental assessments are done. You could turn it on like a switch. If you wanted to, you could start construction on Finch in about two months and Sheppard probably next week.”

Subways don’t work in many neighbourhoods because there aren’t enough riders, he said.
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http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/1057899--revive-transit-city-miller-urges
 
I think Miller's comments can be read as wistful thinking about the destruction of one of his key legacy projects. But he only has himself to blame: if not for that pointless, futile garbage strike he could very well still be mayor.

I'd say that Finch West and even the Sheppard LRT probably stand the highest chance (read: very slim) of ever being resurrected. But that would depend on Ford being limited to a one-term wonder and someone like Adam Vaughan becoming the next mayor.

The Malvern extension is certainly an intriguing possibility although given the burying of the eastern part of Eglinton, it's not tough to see that a political choice could be made to spread out any transit enhancements among other priority neighbourhoods and areas of high congestion.

AFAIK the eastern Queens Quay line was never part of Transit City, and pressure from East Bayfront and Port Lands developers could very well mean that it jumps to the top of the queue ahead of all other LRT projects.

But the broader and much more important question is: how will the growing list of needed transit enhancements be funded?
 
Every three years, the American Public Transportation Association's (APTA) has an annual meeting. This year, it is held in New Orleans from October 2nd to 5th. As part of the meeting, there is an EXPO which is public transit's premier showcase of technology, products and services. See this link.

I would understand if the TTC's general manager will be going, but will the Chair of TTC, Karen Stintz go, and if the Mayor of Toronto, Rob Ford will go? They might learn something, which I guess rules out Rob Ford if he will be learning something about public transit.


Bombardier will be one of the exhibitors. See their link. At the EXPO, Bombardier has this notice:
Ride the Winds of Change – Bombardier Launches a New Light Rail Vehicle Platform for North America

At APTA EXPO 2011, Bombardier will unveil its new cutting-edge light rail technology, specifically adapted for the North American market.

You will have the opportunity to be guided through a full-scale visit of this innovative product and to experience the advantages of 100% low-floor, modular design for urban and suburban applications. Come and see how the most efficient LRV solution can help shape your growing city; sit down and imagine yourself riding the winds of change.
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gweed123 said:
I disagree. In my view, there are 5 stages that any transit project goes through:

1) Pipe-dream: Talked about, but that's about it.
2) Planned: It has been put into either an OP or into a TMP, has been briefly studied.
3) Funded: A funding arrangement has been determined, and a timeline has been prepared. More detailed engineering and planning studies begin.
4) Construction: Money comes through, and shovels actually get into the ground.
5) Completed: Open for business.

Until a project hits Stage 3, in my books it might as well be in Stage 1. Only half of Transit City ever reached Stage 3, and about 1/4 of it will likely reach Stage 4.
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In most cities, it goes 1,2,3...5. Step 4 isn't an issue because once the final EAs are approved and funding is in place, the project starts construction and it is completed as such. Step 3 is the precarious one. A design can be fully approved, but if the funding is disagreed upon by one party, it goes down the toilet.

Toronto, however, is the only city in North America where you could go as far as step 4 and it still wouldn't be a lock. We have a number of recent examples, including the Sheppard LRT, killed under Rob Ford when the grade separation was well underway for the Agincourt GO; the Eglinton subway line killed by Mike Harris when the tail tracks were well U/C, and maybe even St. Clair, which was almost a goner when SOS successfully halted construction after the loop had already been completed at Yonge.

This is an incredibly frustrating aspect of transit expansion in Toronto but perhaps it has historical precedent. After all, the Spadina expressway was similarly aborted when it was already 1/3 complete to Eglinton.
 
My biggest fault with Ford's "plan" - and Sheppard supporters in general - is how their view is completely clouded.

They claim Miller "spit on the suburbs" by offering TC. But they don't seem to realize how the other choice (Metrolinx's plan) didn't include a Sheppard subway either. It left out more of Scarborough and Etobicoke than anything. Miller could've offered BRT, BRT-lite, artics, or nothing for Finch, Malvern, and Sheppard.

So where the f*ck do they get off saying Miller ignored the suburbs?
 
44 North said:
My biggest fault with Ford's "plan" - and Sheppard supporters in general - is how their view is completely clouded.

They claim Miller "spit on the suburbs" by offering TC. But they don't seem to realize how the other choice (Metrolinx's plan) didn't include a Sheppard subway either. It left out more of Scarborough and Etobicoke than anything. Miller could've offered BRT, BRT-lite, artics, or nothing for Finch, Malvern, and Sheppard.

So where the f*ck do they get off saying Miller ignored the suburbs?
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The Sheppard East LRT included provisions for extensions to the Zoo. However, with the Zoo on the cutting block, even that leaves out any target for a Subway or a LRT to reach, along which the transit users in Scarborough would have used, but are now without anything east of the STC.
 
44 North said:
My biggest fault with Ford's "plan" - and Sheppard supporters in general - is how their view is completely clouded.

They claim Miller "spit on the suburbs" by offering TC. But they don't seem to realize how the other choice (Metrolinx's plan) didn't include a Sheppard subway either. It left out more of Scarborough and Etobicoke than anything. Miller could've offered BRT, BRT-lite, artics, or nothing for Finch, Malvern, and Sheppard.

So where the f*ck do they get off saying Miller ignored the suburbs?
Click to expand...

The popular press.
 
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