Transit City Plan

[hkric88]

I really don't understand this hard-on people have for replacing the Sheppard subway with LRTs. What, should we start running LRT between Old Mill and Royal York now too? Those stations aren't used much. They sure as hell don't need subway do they? They can survive on LRT. Hell, let's go back to the past and convert all of Bloor-Danforth to LRT. That way we can interline it with both the future Dundas LRT and the Scarborough LRT and the Sheppard LRT. Ridership isn't really that high on portions of B-D anyway. Hmm I think I feel a poll coming up...

LOL man, you rock.

You said it brother.

You said it.

 

[GTS]

I think people want to do the expensive thing and convert the Sheppard Line to LRT because it would satisfy their ego's. Steve Munro did a lot of good work and advocating to save the St. Clair strreetcar and I imagine that other people want to be some kind of transit savior by advocating for streetcar and LRT's in their own neck of the woods as well.

This is a lot of money the feds just ponied up for Transit here in the GTAH. I think the money should not all go to LRT and GO transit. I hope the people making the decision where this massive amount of funding start up projects to improve our existing system. Steve Munro lives near Broadview Station and they just recently finished working on it. It is improved but not perfect. They are presently fixing up Victoria Park Subway Station that I used to live near and use a lot, I am still grateful they are fixing it up though. I now live near Warden Station and I hope they modernize this heavily used station as well. If this station could lose those antiquated seperated bus bay platforms and have an island type of platform like what Kennedy and Scarborough Town Center Station's have it would help the efficiency of this station and might help with the Ridership Growth Strategy.

I hope they don't funnel all this money to one set of projects such as Transit City and instead spread the money around to upgrade our existing system as well as the expansion plans they have. It is an awful lot of funds they now have at their disposal.

 

[unimaginative2]

"No longer will someone who lives in northeast Scarborough and works in southwest Etobicoke have to spend hours taking four different modes of public transit to get from A to B. They'll be able to navigate the city and the region quickly and efficiently and reliably."

Now they'll be able to spend two hours on only one mode. Progress! C'mon, guys, even Giambrone said that Sheppard East would be too slow for people riding all the way downtown, let alone to southwest Etobicoke. If you're going to sell it, sell it for what it is: local light rail service designed to promote intensification.

 

[nfitz]

To be fair, it also intersects major transit nodes frequently. Scarborough Skytrain at Markham Road, Agincourt GO (which should have frequent fast service to downtown in a few years), Don Mills station, Old Cummer Go (which should also have fast service to downtown and Richmond Hill), Finch Station, Finch West Station. It crosses the Bolton GO line at Weston Road - and that may be a good place for a station. In addition to providing some through service, it will also serve to feed the heavy rail system well; not to mention crossing the Jane, Don Mills, and Scarborough/Malvern LRT lines.

 

[cacruden]

While most of the demand along Sheppard Avenue is artificailly propped up due to feeder bus reroutes meanwhile actual walk-in usage there is horribly low

You lost me here - what the heck is "artificially propped up" have anything to do with a line, why does it matter how people got on the line - as long as the line is well used? I expect lots of people to get fed to the line, I don't expect that only people that use it - live on the line... What are you looking for, people on the line are the only legitimate riders - and maybe we will just have farm land inbetween the subway lines - because no one wants to be an illegitimate rider....

 

[GTS]

You lost me here - what the heck is "artificially propped up" have anything to do with a line, why does it matter how people got on the line - as long as the line is well used?* I expect lots of people to get fed to the line, I don't expect that only people that use it - live on the line...* What are you looking for, people on the line are the only legitimate riders - and maybe we will just have farm land inbetween the subway lines - because no one wants to be an illegitimate rider....

That is one thing the TTC was complimented on. I read to the Toronto Star a few months ago where the head of the Piccadilly Line in London was here in Toronto was here inspecting our system. Our system isn't as large as London's is of course but one thing he was impressed with is the design of our bus stations. That is where most of our subway ridership comes from- our feeder buses and some of our stations are well designed making transfers easy for us riders.

The TTC is investing in more of these well designed stations. They have demolished the old Victoria Park elevated bus terminal and are going to construct a one level shared bus platform for all the routes that use this station.

I have moved here to Toronto from Vancouver and that is one thing I have always appreciated about the TTC is some of it's convenient bus terminals, such as Kennedy and STC. Soon Vic. Park will be one of the good ones as well. My wife and I have just moved and I now use Warden Station, my wife drives so it doesn't matter to her, but I hope they put an island type of platform at this station. Making transfers more convenient by getting rid of a few stairs might increase ridership as well. Public transit includes buses, like it or not. I appreciate a well designed bus loop that makes waiting for a bus a little more comfortable.

 

[Ansem]

New Ideas for LRT

This is from a canditate who wants to become the next Montreal Mayor.

For years he pushed for the return of LRT to the city.

This is what he presented and I find it very interesting...

http://www.projetmontreal.org/communique/35

http://www.projetmontreal.org/files/documents/nouveau_tramway_2008-12-03_fr.pdf

What do you think about it and where could it be useful on our own network?

 

[Second_in_pie]

This is from a canditate who wants to become the next Montreal Mayor.

For years he pushed for the return of LRT to the city.

This is what he presented and I find it very interesting...

http://www.projetmontreal.org/files/documents/nouveau_tramway_2008-12-03_fr.pdf

What do you think about it and where could it be useful on our own network?

I was under the impression that this is what Transit City would include

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking... Is it with the LRT track on either side of the street? If so, it would probably work best downtown, if you ask me, on the streets that aren't slated for transit malls.

There was one part that mentioned having the LRT on one side of the road... I think that would work well in the tighter spots on Jane and other narrow streets like Dufferin.

 

[kEiThZ]

One thing I am curious about...

Does anybody know why they put the boarding platforms after the intersections? That does not make sense to me. Why not board while the light is red?

 

[ShonTron]

Left turn lanes for the drivers.

See, drivers don't always come last in Miller's Socialist Paradise.

---

I like what Montreal's Tram proposals are - providing a higher quality surface transit mode in conjunction with urbanizing streets like Rene-Levesque - that connect and complement the Metro system by filling in the gaps - which is more like Paris' tram system rather than Toronto's planned system.

 

[Amphibius]

You lost me here - what the heck is "artificially propped up" have anything to do with a line, why does it matter how people got on the line - as long as the line is well used? I expect lots of people to get fed to the line, I don't expect that only people that use it - live on the line... What are you looking for, people on the line are the only legitimate riders - and maybe we will just have farm land inbetween the subway lines - because no one wants to be an illegitimate rider....

Whoa! Where's this legitimate/illegitimate argument coming from? About two years ago, the Toronto Star did an article/progress report on the Sheppard Line to determine whether after a half-decade of operation if indeed the line has improved the lives of local residents there. The results were mixed. Many testimonials of the condo-dwellers around Bayview-Sheppard claim that the subway didn't really make their commutes into the downtown core all that much faster so many still opted to drive their cars into work. One could infer from that, that the Sheppard Line fails to even net in its home base regaularly, so what justification could we possibly have for extending it?

If Bayview-Sheppard with its condos, a semi-major mall and long-distance feeder route isn't filling up trains, will Consumers or Sheppard-Warden or Consentino? My bias here stems from us having the opportunity to create a true continuous LRT network across the northern limits of the city rather than create several inconvenient transfer points which add on backtracking time to commutes. If a Humber College student resides in Malvern, there should a direct route for that student with which to be able to attend their classes on time.

Replacing a stop free section of the 190 Rocket express bus, which could be upgraded to bona fide BRT for mere millions, with a two-stop subway extension costing a billion does nothing for that students and many thousands of others trying to cross the city within roughly an hour's duration.

 

[Rainforest]

If a Humber College student resides in Malvern, there should a direct route for that student with which to be able to attend their classes on time.

Note that such a trip will take 75 - 80 min using the proposed Sheppard LRT - Don Mills - Finch LRT route.

Perhaps this is bearable, if not pleasant, for someone who happens to live next to Sheppard LRT in Malvern, and wants to get to Humber College. But how about people who need a bus ride to get to the LRT in the east end, and then another bus ride from the LRT stop in the west end to their job? Their commute will be 1.5 h or more one way, and obviously they will opt for cars if they have a chance.

An extended Sheppard subway obviously would cover only a part of the route due to fiscal constraints, but is likely to be more useful for people who want to travel across 416 in the north and do not live next to the proposed LRT route. They could transfer to the subway using a bus or (in future) another LRT line, and at least a portion of their commute would be fast.

About two years ago, the Toronto Star did an article/progress report on the Sheppard Line to determine whether after a half-decade of operation if indeed the line has improved the lives of local residents there. The results were mixed. Many testimonials of the condo-dwellers around Bayview-Sheppard claim that the subway didn't really make their commutes into the downtown core all that much faster so many still opted to drive their cars into work.

Bayview-Sheppard is not a very good example: no surprise that the subway made their commute mere 5 minutes shorter, compared to bus. The distance from Bayview to Yonge is just 2 km.

Most of subway lines get the majority of their passengers from feeder services, rather than walk-ins. This is definitely the case for the Bloor / Danforth and Spadina lines, and probably even for Yonge (although that one gets many walk-ins). Comparing Sheppard and Eglinton as subway candidates from that standpoint:
- Almost any feeder bus for Eglinton subway could be, alternatively, routed to Bloor-Danforth subway, Spadina, or future DRL East.
- This is not the case for the eastern end of Sheppard subway, as well as its western end in case it ever gets built in future.

 

[Brandon716]

I think a good example of how long Light Rail gets people from point A to B is looking at Portland's system. They have significant intersection-crossings in downtown (and Hillsboro or Gresham on the Blue line).

The Portland MAX Red Line is 41km long and it takes 1 hour to ride its entire length.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAX_Red_Line

You can look up schedules here:

http://trimet.org/max/index.htm

So if a Light Rail system, arguably America's most successful line, can travel 41km in 60 minutes, I believe you can get from Kennedy to the airport in better time than one hour.

At 60 minutes for 41 km, that is .683 kilometers per minute.

.683 kilometers per minute x 47 minutes = 31.41km

I've ridden several Light Rail systems around the world, and I can tell you that going from Kennedy to the Airport will be a 45-50 minute trip. And it never should take more than 50 minutes unless there is major delay or someone jumps out in front of a train or some weather event causes gridlock.

Here in Pittsburgh our climate is nearly identical to Toronto. One thing that does happen on occasion with our T system is when it gets down to below 0F for low temps and barely goes up, the doors tend to freeze up and it causes delay. They stay at the stations until the doors start working properly and you kind of get to your destination "when you can" instead of any set schedule under those circumstances.

But Toronto probably won't be using the same train technology as Pittsburgh so that example may be irrelevant if a new train technology is used and improves in colder weather conditions. But there aren't too many -25C nights to make it a big deal I suppose.

 

[Brandon716]

Here are major intersections.

Don Mills
Bermondsey Dr
Victoria Park
Pharmacy Ave
Warden
Birchmount

6 intersections on the Eglinton East

Bicknell Ave
Black Creek Dr.
Weston
Jane
Scarlett
Royal York
Russell Rd/Eden Valley Dr
Islington
Wincott/Bemerayde Dr.
Kipling
Martin Grove

11 intersections on the Eglinton West line before it goes back into its own ROW to get to the airport.

I could easily see this being less than 50 minutes to get from Kennedy to Pearson.

 

[Second_in_pie]

This is from a canditate who wants to become the next Montreal Mayor.

For years he pushed for the return of LRT to the city.

This is what he presented and I find it very interesting...

http://www.projetmontreal.org/communique/35

http://www.projetmontreal.org/files/documents/nouveau_tramway_2008-12-03_fr.pdf

What do you think about it and where could it be useful on our own network?

Ohh I understand what you're talking about now. Basically redesigning the street with the LRT? I hope that's what's going to happen on St. Clair and the other TC lines. I'd be really mad if it isn't at least for the TC lines.