Transit City Plan

[RichA]

LRT will cost more in the long run than subways

@RichA please look at Portland to see first hand what the difference between streetcars and LRT is, as they operate both kinds of systems.

EDIT: Also, while I disagree your political views, please realize that the Stintz plan is far more fiscal than Ford's.

Not really. The LRT won't last nearly as long as subways, and it will cost more in car driver gridlock than the subway will have cost to build over the time frame of 15-20 years. The fuel waste in traffic slowdowns alone is bad enough.

 

[nfitz]

I'm tempted to go to Detroit just to ride this thing (it runs to Chicago). $32 and a 6 hour trip.

There must be shots of VIA train and now GO trains in Guelph that look similar to that - http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=guelph...2PWrthXrntUskTZFRfONJw&cbp=12,248.95,,1,-1.23

 

[RichA]

Read it and weep.

http://www.toronto.ca/finance/debt.htm#3

 

[Electrify]

Why proposal something that has zero chance of happening. Theres more likely hood that ROB FORD will be our mayor for the next 20 years (5 terms) then a subway being chosed to go down a major street. Proposals need to be somewhat realistic if not what would stop a proposal such as a giant roller coaster to get people to and from work.

Is it really that outrageous though? How would this be that different than Calgary's high floor LRT? The only reason why I thought this would be impossible was due to the third rail, but as shown in the links we could convert the line to ground power, or use trains with dual power sources (third rail in the tunnel, overhead wires on the surface). Either option would certainly be cheaper than converting the whole line to make it work with LRVs, and there wouldn't be the political backlash of having to tell people that "we are converting the subway to an LRT." And of course, it would get rid of that stupid transfer at Don Mills.

 

[nfitz]

Not really. The LRT won't last nearly as long as subways ...

??? What? Even if replacement cycles for LRT elements are shorter (don't think they are, overall), the replacement costs are much lower.

and it will cost more in car driver gridlock than the subway will have cost to build over the time frame of 15-20 years. The fuel waste in traffic slowdowns alone is bad enough.

That makes no sense. Why would LRT create gridlock? As there'll be more people using all the LRT than the subway plan, surely there'll be less car drivers around, and less congestion. Your statements make no sense ... are you trolling us here?

 

[RichA]

Those houses must be worth about $0.10 because of that thundering horror.

 

[RichA]

You are describing the area just north of Don Mills/Sheppard to a tee. One of the highest densities in the WORLD let alone Toronto, all adjacent Sheppard Ave.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

??? What? Even if replacement cycles for LRT elements are shorter (don't think they are, overall), the replacement costs are much lower.

That makes no sense. Why would LRT create gridlock? As there'll be more people using all the LRT than the subway plan, surely there'll be less car drivers around, and less congestion. Your statements make no sense ... are you trolling us here?

Just post and stop trying to play mod.

Those houses must be worth about $0.10 because of that thundering horror.

Your sarcasm is well noted. despite what you may believe, therer are many problems with subways.

 

[Electrify]

Those houses must be worth about $0.10 because of that thundering horror.

Please remember that under my concept, it would still have its own dedicated ROW (on a widened avenue as not to remove traffic lanes) and would not be using residential streets. I posted that picture just to show that metro and heavy rail can operate in street running conditions like light rail can.

 

[DKsan]

There must be shots of VIA train and now GO trains in Guelph that look similar to that - http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=guelph...2PWrthXrntUskTZFRfONJw&cbp=12,248.95,,1,-1.23

That is, quite literally, the worst stretch of track on the Kitchener-Toronto route (for both GO and VIA). The trains, despite being on its own ROW literally crawls in and out the Guelph Train station.

There needs to be a better ROW for that stretch of track. And I don't see how. Elevate? Tunnel? Divert?

 

[nfitz]

Just post and stop trying to play mod.

If I put in 95% discussion and simply use 5% to ponder if we're being played, how is this worse than your response to me that was 100% trying to play mod?

 

[RichA]

??? What? Even if replacement cycles for LRT elements are shorter (don't think they are, overall), the replacement costs are much lower.

That makes no sense. Why would LRT create gridlock? As there'll be more people using all the LRT than the subway plan, surely there'll be less car drivers around, and less congestion. Your statements make no sense ... are you trolling us here?

Don't con yourself into thinking that the LRT will mean less car drivers. The conversion rate for those who can drive is miniscule. All this will do is what buses and streetcars already do, put multi-thousand pound behemouths on the road, going an average of 20kph (if that) in front of cars all day long. Also, those vehicles do most of the damage to the roads that large trucks do. Take a look at the depressions on the curbside lanes of roads; that's all bus's doing.
Lastly, bus quality is terrible today. I know someone who has been in that industry for decades and he said that the profit margins are so slim on bus-builders, they cut corners everywhere when constructing them. They won't last long, not like the stuff from the 1960's-70's.

 

[Tulse]

The LRT won't last nearly as long as subways, and it will cost more in car driver gridlock than the subway will have cost to build over the time frame of 15-20 years.

And your evidence for these claims are...?

 

[nfitz]

Don't con yourself into thinking that the LRT will mean less car drivers. The conversion rate for those who can drive is miniscule. All this will do is what buses and streetcars already do, put multi-thousand pound behemouths on the road, going an average of 20kph (if that) in front of cars all day long. Also, those vehicles do most of the damage to the roads that large trucks do. Take a look at the depressions on the curbside lanes of roads; that's all bus's doing.
Lastly, bus quality is terrible today. I know someone who has been in that industry for decades and he said that the profit margins are so slim on bus-builders, they cut corners everywhere when constructing them. They won't last long, not like the stuff from the 1960's-70's.

If LRT isn't going to reduce car drivers much, subway wouldn't make much difference either. As there's no significant oss in driving lanes along Eglinton (I think there might be about 50 metres lost at Brentcliffe, which only moves the 3-lane to 2-lane bottlneck by ... uh ... 50 metres or so), why would gridlock be an LRT situation only?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You are describing the area just north of Don Mills/Sheppard to a tee. One of the highest densities in the WORLD let alone Toronto, all adjacent Sheppard Ave.

Not really, St. Jamestown is the area with the highest density (65k/km2), which still pales when compared to density in various built up areas in other cities.

AoD