Transit City Plan

[TheTigerMaster]

I support a subway to York U, and Steeles. Having the line go to Vaughn was a compromise that could not be turned down.[/QUOTE]

How couldn't it be turned down???

 

[EnviroTO]

I do find it shocking that some members on here support the subway to Vaughan but don't support finishing the Sheppard line. Makes zero sense to me.

The riders who get on the Spadina line in Vaughan are likely to be headed to a destination on the Spadina line, the same is not true for most people getting on at Don Mills or any station the line could be extended to. I don't think building the line past Steeles made sense from an anticipated ridership perspective, certainly less sense than a DRL or Yonge extension, but more sensible than a Sheppard extension.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Makes a lot of sense. Heck, if we only needed another 2 km to extend to Scarborough Centre I'd support it too.

Vaughan is a suburb. Scarborough is a part of the city.

 

[nfitz]

Vaughan is a suburb. Scarborough is a part of the city.

When the City of Toronto agreed to the Sheppard subway EA back in the early 1990s, Scarborough was not part of the city, and was a suburb. Remember all the discussion about the Sheppard subway in the 1980s? Why wasn't a "Scarborough isn't part of Toronto" raised?

I support a subway to York U, and Steeles. Having the line go to Vaughn was a compromise that could not be turned down.

How couldn't it be turned down???

City of Toronto had to agree to the deal. They could have said no. The city could have decided that they weren't going to increase the cities debt by hundreds of millions to fund Toronto's share of the subway.

 

[quicksilver]

If you don't think Sheppard East supports a subway--fine, don't do anything on Sheppard. But don't be stupid and put an LRT there. It's just a slap in the face as far as I'm concerned and it angers me to no end.

Why so angry hombre? Certainly if you'd support a subway on Sheppard, you wouldn't mind saving $3 billion by using LRT instead. With council's motion to bring the SRT up to Sheppard, there will be an east interchange that would have been at the city centre. Go SELRT Go!

 

[M II A II R II K]

The Vaughn Line provides better access to for to connect with York Region transit, particularly with that hub at Highway 407.

 

[andrewpmk]

Can't count on that. How many people moving from a point on Queen or St. Clair to another point on the same street will use the green subway line? For anyone going short to even medium distances, no one will take a 4km detour with extra transfers to take a subway.

For the downtown oriented travelers who would take such a trip, we're better off spending billions on upgrades to the Richmond Hill and Stouffville GO lines instead of wasting it on burying rail lines in suburbia.

People going short distances on e.g. Finch will continue to use the Finch bus. People going long distances will switch to Sheppard.

GO Transit doesn't help people going east west within the northern suburbs. There are no GO train lines that serve North York Centre.

 

[Northern Magus]

Since the Finch West LRT is going to be built, the real choice here is either a subway on Sheppard or a DRL.

Choosing anything other than an LRT now means that inevitably there will be future calls to keep making that stubway longer, thus detracting from the funds available for the next project. An LRT, however, would be built to a reasonable length in one shot, meaning that when it comes to DRL time, there aren't competing priorities.

Calling a LRT a "slap in the face" is pretty hilarious hyperbole -- not to mention desperate. Simplistically basing transit decisions on subways just because "people want them" is equally ridiculous.

Serve the greatest number of potential transit users with the current pool of funding, then focus on building the DRL properly with the next one.

I suppose that given a choice, everyone would choose a Rolls Royce over a Taurus every time.

But only until they found out what the purchase price, insurance, gas, and maintenance costs would be.

 

[BurlOak]

When the City of Toronto agreed to the Sheppard subway EA back in the early 1990s, Scarborough was not part of the city, and was a suburb. Remember all the discussion about the Sheppard subway in the 1980s? Why wasn't a "Scarborough isn't part of Toronto" raised?

I thought Scarborough was part of the City for a long time. TTC serviced all of Metro Toronto and not just the old city, so from the TTC perspective, Scarborough was part of Toronto.

 

[nfitz]

I thought Scarborough was part of the City for a long time.

No, it was only merged with Toronto very recently. 1997 if I recall correctly.

TTC serviced all of Metro Toronto and not just the old city

Before the creation of Metro Toronto, the TTC primarily served the old city, with a few odd routes out into North York, Scarborough, East York - however they required extra fares - much in the same manner TTC has recently operated in Mississauga, Vaughan, Richmond Hill, and Markham. Even after the Bloor-Danforth line was constructed, there was fare zones in the subway when it crossed the city boundary at Jane and Main Street. It was only in the 1970s that fare zones with Metro were eliminated. At about the same time, government had to start subsidizing transit.

so from the TTC perspective, Scarborough was part of Toronto.

Not for most of the TTC's existence! Heck, for the longest time, there was only the Kingston Road streetcar running east of Victoria Park. I'd assume a lot of service that was in Scarborough at the time, ran to the old bus terminal on Danforth, east of Coxwell.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

I thought Scarborough was part of the City for a long time. TTC serviced all of Metro Toronto and not just the old city, so from the TTC perspective, Scarborough was part of Toronto.

Yup. That was kinda weak nfitz (and I say that mindful of the fact that you're a kindred spirit). TTC was Metro, not City.

Still, re subway vs. LRT, I'm of the view that we ought to maximize the use of scarce resources and build LRT.

 

[EnviroTO]

Vaughan is a suburb. Scarborough is a part of the city.

I don't get this argument. So what? Of the total cost of the extension Toronto is only paying 20% of the capital cost. The way the agreement is set up is that as soon as someone steps off the YRT bus into the subway they pay a TTC fare so they don't need to subsidize the more expensive surface feeder network which is the most expensive part. Not only that but they can turn around every other train at York U. It is expected that some agreement will be in place 18 months prior to revenue service to subsidize the 20% or less of the operational costs that cannot be recovered by the fare box north of Steeles in the first year. Considering that the TTC would not subsidize the surface operation the gap between operational costs and revenues would close quite quickly with growing ridership, unlike at stations where ridership growth is delivered by operating more buses which means more staff, more fuel, and more vehicles.

 

[nfitz]

Vaughan is a suburb. Scarborough is a part of the city.

Also have to point out. The distance (the shortest distance by road) from Malvern Centre (intersection of Nielsen and Mciven) to City Hall is 26.3 km. The distance Vaughan Corporate Metropolitan City Centre to City hall is only 24 km.

 

[Palma]

I support a subway to York U, and Steeles. Having the line go to Vaughn was a compromise that could not be turned down.[/QUOTE]

Why not?

I support neither the Spadina extension nor the Sheppard subway

 

[Electrify]

Wanted to add that once upon a time the fare boundary started at Bloor...