Transit City Plan

[MetroMan]

I'm impressed with that article. It's actually very fair and mostly unbiased. I'm surprised because it's a Sun article, but even more so because it's from Ford's own former press secretary.

However, while the TTC commission can fire Webster, City Council can fire the TTC commission. This would backfire on Ford and his cronies. The TTC would then swing to the left to insure Stintz gets to control the Transit City file without threats from Ford's crew. Stintz has shown them who's the boss. I don't think any councillor wants to lose their seat on the TTC so they have to tread lightly.

 

[liamdevlin02]

The cost of new tracks connecting the Bala sub to the CP line in Leaside might be quite affordable. However, a common potential issue with all enhanced GO to downtown proposals is the Union station capacity.

For a proposal such as this, it's a shame that they've turned the right-of-way into a bicycle/walking path. The switch and some of the spur track still exists just south of Oriole GO station (and has MoW equipment on it as of Thursday), but the rest of the route to CP Leaside would be politically difficult to rebuild.

 

[rbt]

The Green Belt legislation put a stop to 10 home subdivisions in King, Albion, etc. and forced more of the people to move further to Barrie and beyond. The belt around Toronto suffered significantly with this legislation.

Can't speak to the rest, but Barrie's growth is unchanged with that legislation in raw numbers.

Barrie grew about 40,000 between 1991 and 2001 and by about 40,000 between 2001 and 2011. So no, Barrie did not get a population boost due to this legislation.

If you want to go by percentage growth, then Barrie's growth rate is down about 10% since the green belt legislation came into effect.

Go with Milton if you want to look at a single figure to support your argument.

 

[nfitz]

I'm impressed with that article. It's actually very fair and mostly unbiased. I'm surprised because it's a Sun article, but even more so because it's from Ford's own former press secretary.

The article has huge biases in it ... left-this and lefty-that. And how about this statement "’I'm told no copies of the paperwork were ever left behind with “lefty” councillors because they weren’t considered trustworthy". Now, for the Sun, it might be less biased than they usually are, only mentioning Miller once (no article in the Sun about how Ford is doing is complete without mentioning his better educated, more intelligent, predecessor), and Stalin not at all ... but it's clearly very biased.

The comments about Webster are interesting. It would be interesting to see if the rest of the Commission acts against Webster - it's something I doubt the rest of Council will sanction. But who knows ...

 

[spider]

Toronto, your balls are missing.

Those in charge who love to boast that Toronto is a world class city have once again proven their reluctance to play by World Class rules. A streetcar is almost as good as a subway they say, no, real World Class cities build subways on their main routes and streetcars on support or feeder routes.

Toronto needs a means of commuting across the City quickly without transfers like the Bloor subway but situated in a location that serves the north half of town. This line should not be considered a feeder for the Yonge subway as it is already jammed.

In addition to an East-West subway Toronto needs a DRL subway that runs from North East Scarborough through Downtown intersecting with Yonge street at King or Queen and continuing to North West Etobicoke.
The DRL should not be confused with a reinforcement for an existing streetcar line like King or Queen, it’s purpose should be to intersect existing suburban bus lines providing riders who are now faced with transferring to another bus to get to the Yonge subway with a very attractive alternative bound to attract additional ridership.

We can’t afford it we are told, well we will have to find a way or stop the “World Class” stuff and accept that Toronto is a sprawling village that lacks the guts to pull the trigger that will promote them to the top of the class.

Failure to build these 2 real subways will doom Toronto to the congestion we struggle with now only it will become worse every year. The current TTC model is dictated by the TTC management and union to serve themselves, not you. The other very vocal proponents of extending the status quo are hobbyists who love to photograph streetcars, hard to do in a tunnel.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The article has huge biases in it ... left-this and lefty-that. And how about this statement "’I'm told no copies of the paperwork were ever left behind with “lefty” councillors because they weren’t considered trustworthy". Now, for the Sun, it might be less biased than they usually are, only mentioning Miller once (no article in the Sun about how Ford is doing is complete without mentioning his better educated, more intelligent, predecessor), and Stalin not at all ... but it's clearly very biased.

The comments about Webster are interesting. It would be interesting to see if the rest of the Commission acts against Webster - it's something I doubt the rest of Council will sanction. But who knows ...

"lefty" in quotations marks. That is done in the NY times. The intent is to seperate yourself from the story.

 

[BMO]

Toronto, your balls are missing.

Those in charge who love to boast that Toronto is a world class city have once again proven their reluctance to play by World Class rules. A streetcar is almost as good as a subway they say, no, real World Class cities build subways on their main routes and streetcars on support or feeder routes.

Toronto needs a means of commuting across the City quickly without transfers like the Bloor subway but situated in a location that serves the north half of town. This line should not be considered a feeder for the Yonge subway as it is already jammed.

In addition to an East-West subway Toronto needs a DRL subway that runs from North East Scarborough through Downtown intersecting with Yonge street at King or Queen and continuing to North West Etobicoke.
The DRL should not be confused with a reinforcement for an existing streetcar line like King or Queen, it’s purpose should be to intersect existing suburban bus lines providing riders who are now faced with transferring to another bus to get to the Yonge subway with a very attractive alternative bound to attract additional ridership.

We can’t afford it we are told, well we will have to find a way or stop the “World Class†stuff and accept that Toronto is a sprawling village that lacks the guts to pull the trigger that will promote them to the top of the class.

Failure to build these 2 real subways will doom Toronto to the congestion we struggle with now only it will become worse every year. The current TTC model is dictated by the TTC management and union to serve themselves, not you. The other very vocal proponents of extending the status quo are hobbyists who love to photograph streetcars, hard to do in a tunnel.

well said.

 

[jje1000]

I'm impressed with that article. It's actually very fair and mostly unbiased. I'm surprised because it's a Sun article, but even more so because it's from Ford's own former press secretary.

However, while the TTC commission can fire Webster, City Council can fire the TTC commission. This would backfire on Ford and his cronies. The TTC would then swing to the left to insure Stintz gets to control the Transit City file without threats from Ford's crew. Stintz has shown them who's the boss. I don't think any councillor wants to lose their seat on the TTC so they have to tread lightly.

Does council need a simple majority, or at least a 60% majority to remove the TTC Commission?

 

[nfitz]

Toronto, your balls are missing.

I'm really not sure I understand you non-fiscal conservatives, and your desire to throw about $billions of taxpayers money to overbuild a project that benefits a very small proportion of the population. One spends based on need, and if you build an east-west subway in the north of the city, it would barely attract low-end LRT passenger volumes, let alone subway numbers.

 

[jje1000]

Toronto, your balls are missing.

Those in charge who love to boast that Toronto is a world class city have once again proven their reluctance to play by World Class rules. A streetcar is almost as good as a subway they say, no, real World Class cities build subways on their main routes and streetcars on support or feeder routes.

Toronto needs a means of commuting across the City quickly without transfers like the Bloor subway but situated in a location that serves the north half of town. This line should not be considered a feeder for the Yonge subway as it is already jammed.

In addition to an East-West subway Toronto needs a DRL subway that runs from North East Scarborough through Downtown intersecting with Yonge street at King or Queen and continuing to North West Etobicoke.
The DRL should not be confused with a reinforcement for an existing streetcar line like King or Queen, it’s purpose should be to intersect existing suburban bus lines providing riders who are now faced with transferring to another bus to get to the Yonge subway with a very attractive alternative bound to attract additional ridership.

We can’t afford it we are told, well we will have to find a way or stop the “World Class” stuff and accept that Toronto is a sprawling village that lacks the guts to pull the trigger that will promote them to the top of the class.

Failure to build these 2 real subways will doom Toronto to the congestion we struggle with now only it will become worse every year. The current TTC model is dictated by the TTC management and union to serve themselves, not you. The other very vocal proponents of extending the status quo are hobbyists who love to photograph streetcars, hard to do in a tunnel.

Where's the money?

Ford's plan essentially steals from Finch and Sheppard to stick Eglinton underground (not even on elevated pylons). And he's dismissed Chong's ideas without a thought of the implications.

 

[Electrify]

Hey Electrify............that is a very cool map, congrats and thanks.
You are absolutely right, that is a very rational {although I still think the Sheppard LRT should directly connect with STC} and doable plan. Would it work?.......absolutely. Will it get built?........absolutely not.
Your station spacing looks excellent but most TC supporters don't think anybody should have to walk more than 2 blocks to rapid transit. Your plan, with appropriate under/overpasses & crosswalks, is what TC should have been built as but unfortunately TC has gone from rapid transit in theory to local service of every 200-300 meters in execution.
It a shame that so many of TC supporters seem to be blinded by getting it back on track without dealing with the very real deficiences of the system.
It's interesting how both TC supporters and Ford subway supporters have one thing in common........their inflexibility of willing to look at the shortcomings of their respective proposals.

Thanks . Tonight I am going to add a stop at Arrow Rd. and Finch though. As much as it frustrated me, it is one of those areas where having two stops per city block makes more sense than one, and the disconnected road network in the area also makes it hard to just have it stop at the ends (Highway 400 running between makes it hard to do just one in the middle).

I am removing the stop at Eglinton and Leslie though, as there is nothing at all in that intersection.

It is set to be a public map, so I am hoping that someone in power comes across it and considers implementong it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Toronto, your balls are missing.

Those in charge who love to boast that Toronto is a world class city have once again proven their reluctance to play by World Class rules. A streetcar is almost as good as a subway they say, no, real World Class cities build subways on their main routes and streetcars on support or feeder routes.

Toronto needs a means of commuting across the City quickly without transfers like the Bloor subway but situated in a location that serves the north half of town. This line should not be considered a feeder for the Yonge subway as it is already jammed.

In addition to an East-West subway Toronto needs a DRL subway that runs from North East Scarborough through Downtown intersecting with Yonge street at King or Queen and continuing to North West Etobicoke.
The DRL should not be confused with a reinforcement for an existing streetcar line like King or Queen, it’s purpose should be to intersect existing suburban bus lines providing riders who are now faced with transferring to another bus to get to the Yonge subway with a very attractive alternative bound to attract additional ridership.

We can’t afford it we are told, well we will have to find a way or stop the “World Class” stuff and accept that Toronto is a sprawling village that lacks the guts to pull the trigger that will promote them to the top of the class.

Failure to build these 2 real subways will doom Toronto to the congestion we struggle with now only it will become worse every year. The current TTC model is dictated by the TTC management and union to serve themselves, not you. The other very vocal proponents of extending the status quo are hobbyists who love to photograph streetcars, hard to do in a tunnel.

We have to pay for it.

 

[Tulse]

We can’t afford it we are told, well we will have to find a way

Go right ahead. No, seriously, find a way. What do you suggest, a huge increase in property taxes? Major road tolls on existing roads and highways? A large gas tax, sales tax, income tax? Perhaps an annual bake sale?

Honestly, getting all macho about how the city needs genitals is just empty posturing. Be specific: how would you pay for billions in subway construction? How would you pay to subsidize the service of the resulting subway in low-density locations?

Unless you have something specific on offer that can reasonably cover the reasonably projected costs of both building and running a new subway line, then all you have is whining.

 

[andrewpmk]

Toronto, your balls are missing.

Those in charge who love to boast that Toronto is a world class city have once again proven their reluctance to play by World Class rules. A streetcar is almost as good as a subway they say, no, real World Class cities build subways on their main routes and streetcars on support or feeder routes.

Toronto needs a means of commuting across the City quickly without transfers like the Bloor subway but situated in a location that serves the north half of town. This line should not be considered a feeder for the Yonge subway as it is already jammed.

In addition to an East-West subway Toronto needs a DRL subway that runs from North East Scarborough through Downtown intersecting with Yonge street at King or Queen and continuing to North West Etobicoke.
The DRL should not be confused with a reinforcement for an existing streetcar line like King or Queen, it’s purpose should be to intersect existing suburban bus lines providing riders who are now faced with transferring to another bus to get to the Yonge subway with a very attractive alternative bound to attract additional ridership.

We can’t afford it we are told, well we will have to find a way or stop the “World Class†stuff and accept that Toronto is a sprawling village that lacks the guts to pull the trigger that will promote them to the top of the class.

Failure to build these 2 real subways will doom Toronto to the congestion we struggle with now only it will become worse every year. The current TTC model is dictated by the TTC management and union to serve themselves, not you. The other very vocal proponents of extending the status quo are hobbyists who love to photograph streetcars, hard to do in a tunnel.

Good point. There is currently one reasonable way of getting across the north side of the city: the 401. It is jammed all the time. Will building a subway unjam the 401? No, because Toronto is a big city so population growth will make it jammed again. But at least building a subway will mean that people going east west north of the city have a choice. If a subway links Scarborough Centre and the airport in about 1 hour then people will use it. If we build a light rail it will be slow, fewer people will use it, and there is a risk it will be overwhelmed with demand due to low capacity.

Besides 8.6B is a lot of money. It is enough to build a large amount of subway. If we only had 1B then we could be having this debate, but with 8.6B crying poor and claiming we can't afford subways is BS. As it stands under the Stintz proposal Sheppard East gets the Transfer at Don Mills LRT plan which is worse than nothing, and only Finch West gains, so what is the advantage of crippling the Eglinton line to spend a bit of money elsewhere?

 

[JoeParez]

Good point. There is currently one reasonable way of getting across the north side of the city: the 401. It is jammed all the time. Will building a subway unjam the 401? No, because Toronto is a big city so population growth will make it jammed again. But at least building a subway will mean that people going east west north of the city have a choice. If a subway links Scarborough Centre and the airport in about 1 hour then people will use it. If we build a light rail it will be slow, fewer people will use it, and there is a risk it will be overwhelmed with demand due to low capacity.

Besides 8.6B is a lot of money. It is enough to build a large amount of subway. If we only had 1B then we could be having this debate, but with 8.6B crying poor and claiming we can't afford subways is BS. As it stands under the Stintz proposal Sheppard East gets the Transfer at Don Mills LRT plan which is worse than nothing, and only Finch West gains, so what is the advantage of crippling the Eglinton line to spend a bit of money elsewhere?

But the Eglinton line -- even in Rob Ford's "Undergound vision" wasn't going to to get any where near the airport and extending the current Sheppard Subway wasn't going to do the same either. Building 3 lines to enhance the network is a better way of spending $8.6 billion rather than putting the entire line underground when it doesn't need to be.