News   Jul 05, 2024
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Transit City Plan

Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 95 79.2%
  • Ford City

    Votes: 25 20.8%

  • Total voters
    120
People seem to forget that Transit City was to be a NETWORK of rapid transit lines, not just one or two lines. People would have been able to get on the nearest LRT line near them.

Because subways/underground is so expensive, only if the density around the line is large enough so we consider it. The old city of Toronto has had NO Subway line built since 1978 within its old boundaries. All Subways since 1978 have been in the "suburbs".

At least with the Eglinton Crosstown, it would be the first subway/underground for the old city of Toronto in decades.
 
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Just drew up a map on Google of what rapid transit should look like in less than 20 years. I tried to keep it realistic, so I didn't add in any fantasy lines or add/remove any stops to the current lines, nor did I add in any lines which are not on the current TTC road map for the short-medium term (so no DRL, unfortunately). Stop spacing is "rapid," so with signal priority all routes should average at least 30km/h.

The LRT conversion and extension of the Sheppard line would be in phase 2, and would use the funds to extend the Finch line to Yonge and forgo an extension of the line to Meadowvale.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=213339431073365769289.0004b8b9854c3716d4f0b
 
Just drew up a map on Google of what rapid transit should look like in less than 20 years. I tried to keep it realistic, so I didn't add in any fantasy lines or add/remove any stops to the current lines, nor did I add in any lines which are not on the current TTC road map for the short-medium term (so no DRL, unfortunately). Stop spacing is "rapid," so with signal priority all routes should average at least 30km/h.

The LRT conversion and extension of the Sheppard line would be in phase 2, and would use the funds to extend the Finch line to Yonge and forgo an extension of the line to Meadowvale.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=213339431073365769289.0004b8b9854c3716d4f0b

How do you get the different colors and stuff?
 
Just drew up a map on Google of what rapid transit should look like in less than 20 years. I tried to keep it realistic, so I didn't add in any fantasy lines or add/remove any stops to the current lines, nor did I add in any lines which are not on the current TTC road map for the short-medium term (so no DRL, unfortunately).

I think you can add a line between Union and Malton GO station to that map. The incremental cost above what is already being built is quite small to provide 5 to 10 minute frequencies on that section and serve the North-West section of the city well. I might actually add this in lieu of Eglinton West if budgets are tight.

I would be surprised if the DRL, in the form last proposed by Metrolinx as a Union Station relief (Exhibition to some station like Pape), was missing in 2030. DRL in that proposal directly impacts Mississauga/Oakville/Burlington/Hamilton/Whitby/Oshawa/Etobicoke/south Scarborough/... (Union Station Capacity and LakeShore line frequency boost), Markham/Righmond Hill/Vaughan (Yonge extension now possible), obviously downtown Toronto.

That is both an election winning line and one that could line up a ton of people behind some kind of regional revenue generation option to Metrolinx (tolls, gas tax, etc.) to pay for it which would be pretty big from a legacy perspective for McGuinty.

He has transformed how we live with the Green Belt legislation, the impact we can clearly see, and this would let him transform how the region moves.
 
He has transformed how we live with the Green Belt legislation, the impact we can clearly see, and this would let him transform how the region moves.

The Green Belt legislation put a stop to 10 home subdivisions in King, Albion, etc. and forced more of the people to move further to Barrie and beyond. The belt around Toronto suffered significantly with this legislation.
 
It's a real pity it doesn't have a political champion really pulling for it. IMO it could potentially take a lot of cars off of roads, for a relative pittance compared to the Crosstown line.

The cost of new tracks connecting the Bala sub to the CP line in Leaside might be quite affordable. However, a common potential issue with all enhanced GO to downtown proposals is the Union station capacity.

Metrolinx published a report on the Union capacity a couple of months ago, and it is already talking about the need to build a new set of underground tracks, or a new station at Bathurst for the Brampton - Georgetown trains (and divert the DRL subway to that station). Those additions are not cheap.

It might still be worth the buck, but we will need to know the cost of the downtown accommodation to fully evaluate each GO project.
 
Im guessing there will no longer be Waterfront West LRT. This line needs to be made in my opinion.

I wouldn't declare it dead yet. We are committed to building it for the Toronto 2015 PanAm Games. Also there is lots of condominium development in the area. The people along Waterfront West will desperately need more then just busses in the next few years.
 
I wouldn't declare it dead yet. We are committed to building it for the Toronto 2015 PanAm Games. Also there is lots of condominium development in the area. The people along Waterfront West will desperately need more then just busses in the next few years.

No. It's safe to say this line is quite dead. Even before the Dalton budget cuts to TC, WW was not planned to begin construction until 2025!

There is an express bus that whisks residents to the core in 15-25 mins depending on traffic, and that is astronomically faster than the 501, which can really be written off for anyone who needs to get anywhere in a hurry. At a recent TTC transit meeting for the area, we were told that they see the streetcar as adequate for the foreseeable future. Err.. Nobody told them about the 30k-40k new residents on that thin strip of land upon full build out? Can you say total traffic collapse on the Gardiner and Lakeshore?
 
I wouldn't declare it dead yet. We are committed to building it for the Toronto 2015 PanAm Games. Also there is lots of condominium development in the area. The people along Waterfront West will desperately need more then just busses in the next few years.
I'm not sure where there's any commitment to build the Waterfront West LRT as part of the Pan Am Games - or even what venues it serves other than BMO Field, which is relatively accessible by transit already.

Also isn't much of the route already served by streetcars ... the buses tend to run perpendicular to the route - particularly in Etobicoke.
 
The Green Belt legislation put a stop to 10 home subdivisions in King, Albion, etc. and forced more of the people to move further to Barrie and beyond. The belt around Toronto suffered significantly with this legislation.

I think that the greenbelt has been pretty successful in that the majority of people will end up living in condos. Although a few diehards may commute outrageous distances beyond the greenbelt to places like Bradford, the amount of growth in those areas is small compared to new condo construction. Even Markham is really too far from Bradford to commute. There is little demand for housing very far from major suburban job centres especially due to traffic congestion.

If the majority of housing growth is condos, then the density of the GTA will rise dramatically. This is why I think we need subways and LRT is a joke in cities of our size.
 
Couldn't shouldn't be micromanaging design details like that anyway. Those are decisions for engineers and planners.

In any case, the city cut its transit subsidy this year and is likely to do so again next year. We don't have anywhere near the level of committed operational funding to pay for upkeep of unnecessary underground stations.

That's very true but conversely if a system is completely grade separated the trains can be automated which greatly reduces operational costs.
 
Hey Electrify............that is a very cool map, congrats and thanks.
You are absolutely right, that is a very rational {although I still think the Sheppard LRT should directly connect with STC} and doable plan. Would it work?.......absolutely. Will it get built?........absolutely not.
Your station spacing looks excellent but most TC supporters don't think anybody should have to walk more than 2 blocks to rapid transit. Your plan, with appropriate under/overpasses & crosswalks, is what TC should have been built as but unfortunately TC has gone from rapid transit in theory to local service of every 200-300 meters in execution.
It a shame that so many of TC supporters seem to be blinded by getting it back on track without dealing with the very real deficiences of the system.
It's interesting how both TC supporters and Ford subway supporters have one thing in common........their inflexibility of willing to look at the shortcomings of their respective proposals.
 
This is good information regard Ford's immediate plans straight from the horse's mouth. Ironically, a second grassroots campaign will be waged, not by community members, but by Ford.

TLDR?
- "No one does retail politics better than Rob Ford."
- "Sources say the TTC’s top executive, Gary Webster, may lose his job"


Down, but not out
The mayor lost the battle on subways, not the war
BY ADRIENNE BATRA ,TORONTO SUN


Mayor Rob Ford’s administration began last week with a major win — settling a contract with CUPE Local 416 that, by all accounts, both sides can live with. A walk-out/lock-out was averted.

But the celebration was short-lived. Lurking in the shadows was the albatross of competing public transit plans.

No one could argue with the mayor’s mandate to build subways — that had been decided in the 2010 municipal election.

At issue was the Scarborough-Eglinton Crosstown LRT and whether a portion of it would be built above ground. (Some people have incorrectly confused antiquated streetcars, which operate in downtown Toronto, with what will be operating on the Crosstown. Also, it’s NOT a subway.)

Council’s left-wing completely hijacked TTC Chair Karen Stintz’s compromise transit plan, although she refused to even utter the words “Transit City” that the left wanted to revive from David Miller’s time as mayor.

The fact Ford lost the council vote on subways is reminiscent of other major slip ups his administration has had because of an unwillingness to compromise.

For her part, Stintz insisted she had a sign-off from Coun. Doug Ford on her compromise plan.

While there’s no reason to disbelieve her, why didn’t she wait to get a green light from the mayor, instead of his surrogate?

Why didn’t she first talk to her fellow TTC commissioners about what she was working on, or her concerns? (Her team argues they tried and failed to do that at the last TTC Commission meeting).

What’s certain is the public transit file has been fumbled since the beginning.

The administration could have easily gotten 23 votes at council back in March of 2011 when the new memorandum of understanding was signed with the province, which would have rightly buried the entire Eglinton line. But they sat on it.

On this point, Stintz had been raising concerns about the Sheppard subway funding and the cost of putting the whole Eglinton line underground for quite some time.

For those in the administration to say now they were caught off guard by her actions is disingenuous.

It’s troubling Ford’s team couldn’t work this out before it became a covert operation to get the necessary signatures for a special council meeting to overturn Ford’s transit plan.

(I’m told no copies of the paperwork were ever left behind with “lefty” councillors because they weren’t considered trustworthy).

What had some middle-of-the-road councillors convinced of the merits of a compromise was the potential “left over” provincial money that could then be allocated to the Sheppard subway to fulfill Ford’s election promise.

The province said nearly $650 million could be shifted to that project and by doing so, over $300 million for transit would be unlocked from the federal government.

But let’s be clear — there is no guarantee and the Dalton McGuinty government isn’t exactly known for its accounting abilities.

There may be no money left over after completion of the Crosstown project. Governments rarely bring in large infrastructure projects on time or under budget. (See the St. Clair streetcar right-of-way.)

Many of Ford’s critics have described last week’s transit vote as his biggest loss and the beginning of the end for him.

Not so. An important point his foes, and supporters, should not forget is that no one does retail politics better than Rob Ford.

This may be a point of derision among some at city hall, including civil servants who get frustrated with Ford’s, “I will come to your front door” approach. No matter.

Many residents call Ford (directly on his cellphone, of course) when they can’t get any action on a problem from their own councillor.

People love this about Ford. Even when he attends an event in an opposing councillor’s ward, Ford is greeted like a rock star, often leaving his press gallery critics scratching their heads.

His ground game is second to none. It’s one of the main reasons he won the election and why you saw pictures of him in the Toronto Sun riding the subway at midnight.

Following the transit vote, the twitterverse was abuzz with Ford supporters and detractors, but some astute political observers pointed out all it had really done was hand him his platform for reelection in 2014.

Since Ford can’t fire Stintz as TTC chair — only council can, and that’s a vote he will lose — sources say the TTC’s top executive, Gary Webster, may lose his job.

That too, would have to come to a vote, but only at the TTC Commission.

So the transit story isn’t over. It’s only beginning.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/10/down-but-not-out


Something important to remember:

Rob Ford will continue to be the mayor because he employs the same tactic that Pentacostal churches have used to become the fastest growing religion in the world: spend some face time talking to the poorest, most vulnerable people in society and promise them a simplistic answer to a complex problem.

For every educated, media savvy person who can cut holes through Rob Ford's policies like swiss cheese, there's more than a few blue collar, uneducated voters in some downtrodden suburb who never reads the papers, never follows the news and just cares that a politician spent some of his time meeting with them and letting them air their grievance.

The reason why Ford's now canvassing Scarborough? To convince people not of his transit plan, but to turn them against LRT. He's trying to retake control of the issue.
 
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