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Transit City Plan

Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 95 79.2%

  • Ford City

    Votes: 25 20.8%
  • Total voters
    120
superman said:
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/project...lintonScarboroughCrosstownUpdate_Feb72012.pdf

grade separation clearly needed in metrolinx report in 2030 (10 years after opening) an would actually reach capacity in 2050 for LRT vehicles.
Click to expand...

Oddly, that diagram on Page 16 stipulates same demand forecasts for the surface-subway option as for the fully underground option.

At the same time, Page 6 of the same report says that the peak demand increases from 5,400 for the surface-subway option to 12,000 for the fully underground option.
 
I believe that the report seems to have inconsistent numbers, representing poor research on Metrolinx's part (and to appease His Whopper, who does not care about proper research anyways), unlike my assignment, which has been fact-checked rigorously by transportation-focused geography professors.
 
Last edited:
gweed123 said:
But because the bill is an omnibus, and Transit City was actually never voted on as 'a plan', but as individual lines, nothing stopping them from doing the same thing here.

It doesn't even need to be a definitive answer on Sheppard, the bill just has to say something like "commission a study to determine the best option for Sheppard East". Get the rest of the stuff moving, and let the debate centre exclusively around Sheppard East, so that it can stop holding everything else hostage.
Click to expand...

Let's hope that it is possible - reaffirming the 3 lines while deferring Sheppard a bit longer before the final decision on that corridor is made.
 
Johnny Au said:
I believe that the report seem to have inconsistent numbers, representing poor research on Metrolinx's part (and to appease His Whopper, who does not care about proper research anyways), unlike my assignment, which has been fact-checked rigorously by transportation-focused geography professors.
Click to expand...

It is not the first time a Metrolinx research has consistency issues. However I don't think they bother to appease any city-level politician; they don't answer to him and their jobs are not at risk.
 
MetroMan said:
The reality is, council needs to make Rob Ford come out looking good or this isn't over. Ford's cronies on the TTC have said they will vote to block Transit City from within the TTC. Council may tell the Province to build Transit City but the TTC ultimately has control over what they want. They've ignored council before (bus route cuts vs WheelTrans) so they can do it again. Of course Metrolinx can go at it alone but not having this integrated into the TTC will slow things down considerably.

The fight for transit doesn't end tomorrow. This is going to go on for some time.
Click to expand...

Remember that Toronto has a strong council (weak mayor) system. What that means is that without the support and confidence of city council the mayor is powerless. At the end of the day city council has all the power and control in the city and the final decision is up to them.

You suggested that the TTC may block Transit City if it's approved tomorrow. but remember that the council would very likely fire the TTC commissioners and order the TTC to build Transit City.

Rob Ford can delay and use poliical tactics all he wants but at the end of the day Transit City (or another council supported plan) will be built. The mayor is fighting a loosing battle.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Remember that Toronto has a strong council (weak mayor) system. What that means is that without the support and confidence of city council the mayor is powerless. At the end of the day city council has all the power and control in the city and the final decision is up to them.

You suggested that the TTC may block Transit City if it's approved tomorrow. but remember that the council would very likely fire the TTC commissioners and order the TTC to build Transit City.
Click to expand...

And they should replace the Board. But that requires another Special meeting (reelection of the TTC board was not stated as the agenda for this meeting, and the Council rules do not allow changing the agenda even if the majority wants it).
 
Rainforest said:
And they should replace the Board. But that requires another Special meeting (reelection of the TTC board was not stated as the agenda for this meeting, and the Council rules do not allow changing the agenda even if the majority wants it).
Click to expand...

I Hope that the board is replaced by council. The board is in horrible shape right now. But in reality that would only happen if the board blocks Council's decision tomorrow.
 
^ I'd rather see SELRT money being used for a small extension of Sheppard subway - that is certainly not useless, and will not cost billions; while Finch West LRT and the SLRT extension restored.
 
Before TC supporters become too smug you would be wise to "be careful what you ask for"". McGuinty {or any other future Premier} will be able to politely tell the TTC or the City to go to hell if they want more money for operations. The Eglinton line will have to be driven by drivers unlike a totally grade separated system which could be automated as Metrolinx wanted. When the City comes asking for more money Queen's Park could legimately state that you choose not to accept a money saving {in operation} system so don't come crying to me if you are running low on operational revenue. How exactly could the city respond?.....they couldn't.
Also, the TTC and City, seeing they are demanding accountability from Ford and company, should be supplying some themselves. They should be making it VERY clear how long the trips on TC will take as opposed to a regular bus or express bus......I think most will be very disappointed. The TTC and City have been completely manipulative with TC stats and it's benefits. This is mainly due to it constantly being reffered to as "rapid" transit. It will certainly be more comfortable, pleasant, reliable, and somewhat quicker but by no stretch of the imagination will it be rapid. They should compare to Vancouver's BLine buses which run every 4 minutes in rush-hour down very busy Broadway with HOV lanes and POP boarding. It, however, is fast with stops averaging every 1 to 1.5 km.
There is no place on this entrie planet that even has the nerve to state that anything that stops at every light, advanced light, crosswalk, and every 2 to 3 blocks is rapid. It is certainly better transit but Torontonians will find that their trip has become much more pleasant and comfortable but hardly any faster.
The TTC has been making up figures as it goes along in terms of speed and ,ake no mistake Torontonians need rapid transit if they are even going to consider giving up their cars.
 
Rainforest said:
^ I'd rather see SELRT money being used for a small extension of Sheppard subway - that is certainly not useless, and will not cost billions; while Finch West LRT and the SLRT extension restored.
Click to expand...

There is hardly enough density along Sheppard to justify a subway, let alone an extension east into Scarborough (which is what Ford wants). The only time that a Sheppard extension starts to make sense is when it is at lest doubled or tripled in size. If that happens the line will become a true east-west transitway and people in northern Toronto will use it to travel east-west instead of using the Bloot-Danforth or Eglinton Crosstown. Unfortunately we do not have the money for such an extension and all we probably can afford is a small extension of just a few stations. A small extension like that would cause the city to loose millions each year in operating costs

However if the Sheppard like was extended to Sheppard West Station (aka: Downsview) it starts making sense to expand. That expansion would add millions of new riders to the line.
 
Rainforest said:
^ I'd rather see SELRT money being used for a small extension of Sheppard subway - that is certainly not useless, and will not cost billions; while Finch West LRT and the SLRT extension restored.
Click to expand...

There is hardly enough density along Sheppard to justify a subway, let alone an extension east into Scarborough (which is what Ford wants). The only time that a Sheppard extension starts to make sense is when it is at lest doubled or tripled in size. If that happens the line will become a true east-west transitway and people in northern Toronto will use it to travel east-west instead of using the Bloot-Danforth or Eglinton Crosstown. Unfortunately we do not have the money for such an extension and all we probably can afford is a small extension of just a few stations. A small extension like that would cause the city to loose millions each year in operating costs

However of the Sheppard like was extended to Sheppard West Station (aka: Downsview) it starts making sense to expand. That expansion would add millions of new riders to the line.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Before TC supporters become too smug you would be wise to "be careful what you ask for"". McGuinty {or any other future Premier} will be able to politely tell the TTC or the City to go to hell if they want more money for operations. The Eglinton line will have to be driven by drivers unlike a totally grade separated system which could be automated as Metrolinx wanted. When the City comes asking for more money Queen's Park could legimately state that you choose not to accept a money saving {in operation} system so don't come crying to me if you are running low on operational revenue. How exactly could the city respond?.....they couldn't.
Also, the TTC and City, seeing they are demanding accountability from Ford and company, should be supplying some themselves. They should be making it VERY clear how long the trips on TC will take as opposed to a regular bus or express bus......I think most will be very disappointed. The TTC and City have been completely manipulative with TC stats and it's benefits. This is mainly due to it constantly being reffered to as "rapid" transit. It will certainly be more comfortable, pleasant, reliable, and somewhat quicker but by no stretch of the imagination will it be rapid. They should compare to Vancouver's BLine buses which run every 4 minutes in rush-hour down very busy Broadway with HOV lanes and POP boarding. It, however, is fast with stops averaging every 1 to 1.5 km.
There is no place on this entrie planet that even has the nerve to state that anything that stops at every light, advanced light, crosswalk, and every 2 to 3 blocks is rapid. It is certainly better transit but Torontonians will find that their trip has become much more pleasant and comfortable but hardly any faster.
The TTC has been making up figures as it goes along in terms of speed and ,ake no mistake Torontonians need rapid transit if they are even going to consider giving up their cars.
Click to expand...
Your post was filled with so many technical errors and made up nonsense that I'm not even going to take the time to write a response to it. Take some time to educate yourself on Transit City and LRT technology and come back when you have something intelligent to say.

Tip: Dont get your transit knowledge from His Worship, Mayor Robert Ford. He couldn't tell the difference between a streetcar, lrt, subway and dog if his life depended on it. He claims that LRTs are streetcars but that his transit plan (which uses LRT technology) is somehow a subway.
 
Fine, you tell me how stopping every 2 to 4 blocks, for all crosswalks, and waiting for advanced green lights for cars represents "rapid" transit, I'm all ears.
BTW......don't say that TC isn't suppose to be true tapid transit as it is the TTC and City that keep insisting it is.
 
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