M II A II R II K
Senior Member
The Finch riders could get on at Finch West Station, and east of there if they had to travel south to the Sheppard Line and get on that instead perhaps.
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Transit City Plan
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Finch areas will get some what better service and not have to travel near as far to a subway when the Spadina is done.
I think one of the main points is if the areas of Finch West will get much better transit even if the Finch streetcar is done? It certainly wouldn't be near as fast as some express buses but save over a billion.
The thing is that when you are building rapid/mass transit then some areas are going to be left out in the cold or have to wait. Being a transit authority planner also means having to have balls and set priorities and Finch isn't one of the top ones.
This is one of the problems with TC.............in trying to offer somewhat better services to everyone no one gets serves well. If you need a minivan for your family of five buying 5 scooters doesn't change the fact you need a minivan. 5 tents for that family doesn't change the fact you need a house.
Ditch Finch, Sheppard, and SRT and set the two main priorities.............Eglinton and DRL. Take those savings and turn the streetcars {which now have to be used at least to an extent due to Metrolinx undermining Toronto's needs b y ordering 187 new TC LRT cars} from Light Rail Transit into Light RAPID Transit. LRT can work but not the way they have proposed. Again it's about setting priorities and that means telling people that you have to walk farther than you thought. Again by trying to serve everyone with a stop every 2 and a half blocks no one gets served well.
Planning transit not only requires vision but also leadership and that is sadly lacking at City Hall. the TTC, and Metrolinx, and Torontonians are paying the price.
Curious, has anyone actually brought this up with Metrolinx or has it been and they just don't listen or worse don't care?
I think one of the main points is if the areas of Finch West will get much better transit even if the Finch streetcar is done? It certainly wouldn't be near as fast as some express buses but save over a billion.
The thing is that when you are building rapid/mass transit then some areas are going to be left out in the cold or have to wait. Being a transit authority planner also means having to have balls and set priorities and Finch isn't one of the top ones.
This is one of the problems with TC.............in trying to offer somewhat better services to everyone no one gets serves well. If you need a minivan for your family of five buying 5 scooters doesn't change the fact you need a minivan. 5 tents for that family doesn't change the fact you need a house.
Ditch Finch, Sheppard, and SRT and set the two main priorities.............Eglinton and DRL. Take those savings and turn the streetcars {which now have to be used at least to an extent due to Metrolinx undermining Toronto's needs b y ordering 187 new TC LRT cars} from Light Rail Transit into Light RAPID Transit. LRT can work but not the way they have proposed. Again it's about setting priorities and that means telling people that you have to walk farther than you thought. Again by trying to serve everyone with a stop every 2 and a half blocks no one gets served well.
Planning transit not only requires vision but also leadership and that is sadly lacking at City Hall. the TTC, and Metrolinx, and Torontonians are paying the price.
Curious, has anyone actually brought this up with Metrolinx or has it been and they just don't listen or worse don't care?
Fresh Start
Banned
The more poignant question to be asking is whether a light-rail along Finch West will really even help Finch riders. $1.2 billion for a mere 11 kiometres of LRT or $109 million per kilometre sounds extravagantly expensive, especially when considering that bus trip times from Humber College to the YUS subway will already be significantly reduced thanks to TYSSE. Is it really worth that expense to replace buses with trams, with fewer local stops for the elderly and infirm and a curcuitous routing to Humber College when running striaght down Humber College Blvd would get students to their classes a lot faster?
If we're going to spend billions upgrading a service let's at least make sure that it's a real upgrade with partial or full ROW exclusivity the whole length for a considerably longer length than 11 kms. That the Finch Hydro Corridro stretches from Weston/Finch contiuously to Malvern and runs directly by Finch West/York U, Finch/Finch GO, Old Cummer GO and Seneca College is a thought that ought not to be lost on anyone. Neither is the opportunity to run 2 1/2 lanes of exclusive bus-only ROW down the median of Finch west of Weston and east of McCowan.
Dan416
Senior Member
These "debates" (I'm reluctant to call them that) have really come to a standstill haven't they?
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Pretty much. Probably the only point with considerable support is a need for a DRL. There seems to be more support than not for converting the existing SRT to subway. The need for a subway on Sheppard or Eglinton, and the value of LRT on those same routes and Finch has a debate going in circles. Of all the Transit City routes probably the one I have heard the least support for is Jane LRT.
nfitz
Superstar
We've already concluded that conversion isn't possible; it would have to be a completely new alignment.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Unless one lives along the route that the Jane LRT may take. Same with most others, we all want rapid transit near where you live or work first. A bit of YIMBY.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
By convert I mean "replace the link between Kennedy and Scarborough Centre with a subway". I don't think there is any level of agreement on routing.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I actually want it where it makes sense. I would likely never or rarely use the DRL personally but it seems obvious that it is required. I haven't been to northern Etobicoke in years but the Finch LRT is obviously an improvement and I support it. I am more likely to go to the zoo than northern Etobicoke but I don't think the LRT should go there unless the zoo pays for any cost overruns and has a solid business case which shows the revenues received by the TTC and the zoo make up for the cost.
nfitz
Superstar
Though there has been a case made, that some of the zoo parking lots can be used as a Park and Ride on weekdays, leaving them available for the zoo on weekends, and the stop can be dual-purpose.
How much demand for park and ride at the zoo however, is a question for study ...
Electrify
Senior Member
I agree... with reservation. During rush hour, many transit vehicles are operating at crush load capacity meaning you may have virtually no space to do the things you suggest. And even if you do get a seat, the TTC seats are nowhere near as comfortable as most cars (note that the seating in more and more GTA buses are getting better, and while the new subway trains will continue to have standard seating the new streetcars should be more comfortable).
All that said, I'll take a cramped subway train over paying for parking and taking twice as long to get home via driving through gridlock. But to many, it may become a personal choice.
LAz said:
I agree... with reservation. Things like pay parking, removing a lane of traffic for RAPID transit (ie: NOT St. Clair/Spadina), all while investing in frequent and high speed transit alternatives to driving are great transit incentives while fair auto disincentives.
But North America isn't Sweeden. We have far more rural and much larger distances to travel. While our intercity rail and transit should be better, making vehicle ownership unaffordable for people would do more harm than good for most people's quality of life.
Worth noting too that in Europe, you can get smaller cars which are more fuel efficient and cost less (before taxes) than you can get here. So a lower income individual purchasing their first car may get a Toyota Aygo or Ford Ka rather than a Yaris or Fiesta.
kEiThZ
Superstar
And how would those lots be accessed without turning Port Union and/or Meadowvale into a traffic nightmare? It's a terrible idea and a blatantly reaching attempt to justify getting the LRT to the zoo.
That said, I fully agree it should get to Dean Park at least. I'd be pretty pissed right now if I lived in Dean Park. Reduced bus service (once the LRT comes in) and no LRT. That sucks.
AnnetteMeetsJane
Active Member
Isn't the argument that while the E-W provision is improved with the Eglinton, Finch etc. route upgrades, it is much more difficult to travel N-S in the West End?
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Like subway lines why not have some of the Transit City routes run along side the road or in trenches.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
According to Smitherman's 2015-2020 plan on his website, he supports a Sheppard Subway extension to Downsview, replacing the SRT with a subway, and extending the Bloor-Danforth Line to Sherway Gardens. Looks like SOS will be smiling in their sleep if Smitherman wins