Transit City Plan

[unimaginative2]

But, lets not forget that the one-minute time saving claims don't take into account how unreliable the mixed-traffic operation was. The $100 million investment doesn't just bring 1 minute faster travel times - it also brings reliability and the ability to throw more cars down the line without them getting stuck in traffic.

Does it? I'm not the only rider who notices that Spadina is wildly unreliable.

 

[kettal]

30 year-old clunker cars will do that. Yesterday I got stuck in a backlog of streetcars in the union tunnel, due to a vehicle failure, and it threw all of Spadina Avenue out of service.

And it happened underground so there's no blaming it on surface intersections.

This is exactly why the TTC should be converting to double ended streetcars and crossovers.

 

[RedRocket191]

Does it? I'm not the only rider who notices that Spadina is wildly unreliable.

I'm being normative.

 

[unimaginative2]

As Steve Munro has ably demonstrated, the bunching and other delays on Spadina have very little to do with vehicle reliability.

How does Spadina differ from the streetcar-in-right-of-way norm as built by the TTC? How is it different from St. Clair?

 

[Epi]

Well hopefully the entire St. Clair episode has taught the TTC a thing or two about how to do these things better.

 

[kettal]

As Steve Munro has ably demonstrated, the bunching and other delays on Spadina have very little to do with vehicle reliability.

How does Spadina differ from the streetcar-in-right-of-way norm as built by the TTC? How is it different from St. Clair?

I missed that one. What was the conclusion, loading times the main culprit?

 

[unimaginative2]

No, actually, it was cultural: the lack of supervision. Cars left the terminals at completely random intervals, so obviously they're not going to travel the route evenly spaced.

Epi, I sure hope so, but I haven't seen any evidence of it so far. Has anybody else seen concrete evidence of lessons learned?

 

[nfitz]

30 year-old clunker cars will do that. Yesterday I got stuck in a backlog of streetcars in the union tunnel, due to a vehicle failure, and it threw all of Spadina Avenue out of service.

Given that most Spadina cars turn at King or Queens Quay - why would a blockage in the tunnel at Union shut down service on Spadina?

 

[kettal]

Sorry, didn't shut down Spadina, but there were so many spadina cars stuck in the tunnel, it certainly had a large effect.

 

[Ansem]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/640284

Nothing it has learned from the streetcar controversies along St. Clair and Spadina Aves. has changed the TTC's resolve to operate the seven new Transit City lines on a raised 15-cm concrete bed in reserved lanes in the middle of the road.

The core philosophy of the $10-billion plan remains: Transit gets priority, the car will be pinched, and the desires of urban design buffs will be accommodated only as feasible.

"We shouldn't be spending the kind of money we are with Transit City and then be competing with traffic and left-hand turning vehicles," Gary Webster, TTC chief general manager, said yesterday.

Webster and Transit City program manager Sameh Ghaly say the reserved corridor is good for city building, good for transit and sends a powerful message to the public that the city is serious about moving commuters efficiently.

If the TTC learned anything from developing the Spadina and St. Clair streetcar lines, it is this: You can't please every interest group. There will be tradeoffs. And the sooner you outline them to the stakeholders – drivers, storefront businesses, cyclists, pedestrians and urban design buffs – the sooner reality sets in.

So, what to expect from Transit City lines, starting with Sheppard E., Finch W. and Eglinton?

Only one corridor, Sheppard E., is close to being wide enough (36 metres) to satisfy everyone by providing bike lanes, wide sidewalks, parking, two lanes of through traffic, dedicated turning lanes and the dedicated transit lanes for the entire route. Even this line has narrow segments that will mean loss of parking or bike lanes.

The Don Mills and Jane St. corridors are so narrow, planners will be challenged to find any segments able to include all the features.

Some commuters may have to walk five to 10 minutes to get to Transit City stops because they'll be farther apart than bus stops. Fewer stops mean faster travel, but less appeal for those who live midway between stops.

Along Eglinton Ave., which is too narrow in places, the problem is exacerbated. Eglinton streetcars will run underground between Leslie and Keele. Underground stops 500 metres apart and connected to street-level entrances would be too expensive, so stops here range up to a kilometre apart, akin to a subway line.

That's clearly a disincentive to use transit, so TTC is considering running a parallel, less frequent bus service here, similar to what's done currently on Yonge St.

TTC is projecting that increased reliability and predictability of service – transit arriving as advertised and reaching its destination on time – will overcome the inconvenience of stops being further apart. They should anticipate a huge pushback from commuters. Nothing rankles more than losing your stop.

Webster says reliability is the huge selling point for the reserved transit lanes of Transit City. For instance, along St. Clair, the travel saving from end to end amounts to five minutes running time. Riders travelling a much shorter distance likely save one or two minutes.

But other benefits add to the quality of the commuting experience. The wait times at Transit City stops should be reduced because the streetcars won't get held up by turning vehicles or traffic clots. Having cars evenly spaced along the route should mean less instances of overcrowding. In total, Ghaly and Webster promise that the quality of transit service will be greatly improved.

Bottom line on Transit City: Expect minor tinkering, but there's little chance of derailing the plan.

 

[Epi]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/640284
So, what to expect from Transit City lines, starting with Sheppard E., Finch W. and Eglinton?

Only one corridor, Sheppard E., is close to being wide enough (36 metres) to satisfy everyone by providing bike lanes, wide sidewalks, parking, two lanes of through traffic, dedicated turning lanes and the dedicated transit lanes for the entire route. Even this line has narrow segments that will mean loss of parking or bike lanes.

The Don Mills and Jane St. corridors are so narrow, planners will be challenged to find any segments able to include all the features.

What the heck? Don Mills is one of the widest streets in the entire city... there's huge grass areas on either side of this 6-laned colossus. That's more than you can say for Sheppard. Not only that, but neither Don Mills nor Sheppard need street parking unless they are also planning to demolish every building running alongside these roads and replace it with Bloor St.

 

[W. K. Lis]

What the heck? Don Mills is one of the widest streets in the entire city... there's huge grass areas on either side of this 6-laned colossus. That's more than you can say for Sheppard. Not only that, but neither Don Mills nor Sheppard need street parking unless they are also planning to demolish every building running alongside these roads and replace it with Bloor St.

In a hundred years, maybe yes, or less, it could look like Bloor. Click on this link to check out this article from the Globe and Mail on controversial economist Jeff Rubin's new book Why Your World Is About to Get a Whole Lot Smaller.

Quoting from the article:

Mr. Rubin built his reputation on a number of successful predictions, including one in 2000 that oil prices would hit $50 (U.S.) a barrel within five years and correctly calling the residential real estate market bust in the early 1990s. He was named Canada's top economist a number of times.

Mr. Rubin recently forecast that the price of oil will reach $225 a barrel by 2012.

By Bloor, I mean with layby's for parking.

 

[kettal]

What the heck? Don Mills is one of the widest streets in the entire city... there's huge grass areas on either side of this 6-laned colossus. That's more than you can say for Sheppard. Not only that, but neither Don Mills nor Sheppard need street parking unless they are also planning to demolish every building running alongside these roads and replace it with Bloor St.

Don mills is less than 30 m wide at the Lawrence & Donways intersections, where 36 m is required for a complete intersection as in Sheppard East.

At York Mills, Sheppard, & Eglinton intersections, it is generally wide enough to include bike lanes and everything else.

From Finch to Steeles, major widening will be required, but probably not much expropriation.

 

[unimaginative2]

Along Eglinton Ave., which is too narrow in places, the problem is exacerbated. Eglinton streetcars will run underground between Leslie and Keele. Underground stops 500 metres apart and connected to street-level entrances would be too expensive, so stops here range up to a kilometre apart, akin to a subway line.

That's clearly a disincentive to use transit, so TTC is considering running a parallel, less frequent bus service here, similar to what's done currently on Yonge St.

If subway-style stops are clearly a disincentive to use transit, then why are the subway lines vastly busier than any frequent-stopping surface route?

Webster says reliability is the huge selling point for the reserved transit lanes of Transit City. For instance, along St. Clair, the travel saving from end to end amounts to five minutes running time. Riders travelling a much shorter distance likely save one or two minutes.

But other benefits add to the quality of the commuting experience. The wait times at Transit City stops should be reduced because the streetcars won't get held up by turning vehicles or traffic clots. Having cars evenly spaced along the route should mean less instances of overcrowding. In total, Ghaly and Webster promise that the quality of transit service will be greatly improved.

Will they be promising greatly improved reliability on the streetcar rights-of-way that they've already built?

 

[Epi]

In a hundred years, maybe yes, or less, it could look like Bloor. Click on this link to check out this article from the Globe and Mail on controversial economist Jeff Rubin's new book Why Your World Is About to Get a Whole Lot Smaller.

If in 100 years these roads turn into Bloor, I would hope that they'd have subways by then But then again with Canada you never know!