Toronto's and Province's New 12.4B Eglinton/SRT/Sheppard Plan

[nfitz]

One realistic thing that would have made it even better though is 'temporary' enhanced bus service along Sheppard East as well, just until the subway opens.

There already is. 190 Scarborough Centre Rocket. Direct from Don Mills station to Scarborough Centre, with only 6 stops in between (which aren't quite the same, but are similar to the proposed subway. TTC set this route up when even they thought the subway was going to be extended.

There's also the 196B and 196D York University Rocket that goes from Yonge/Sheppard to Downsview with only 1 stop at Bathurst ... just like the proposed subway.

It's this kind of pre-subway express buses that would have been nice to see on Don Mills and Jane, like they were promised a couple of years ago.

 

[nfitz]

I suspect that they just forgot to print the McCowan station on their map.

They also left it out of the press release, and said the that the termini of the new line would be Black Creek (not Jane) and Scarborough Centre.

They still need the Bellamy yard and the tracks will go there right through the current location of McCowan station. If so, why not retain the station?

They don't need Bellamy yard. The original plan was to close it and replace it with the new yard at Conlins Road and Sheppard. Now with that cancelled, they can instead use the new yard that will be used for the Eglinton line.

 

[paraone]

"they can instead use the new yard that will be used for the Eglinton line. "

Which would make sense to retrofit the Bellamy yard.... can't think of many places to build a new yard on eglinton, aside from the flats at Jane or in the Don valley, both are probably to rugged terrain wise to create a yard and the flats are known flood plain.

 

[nfitz]

"they can instead use the new yard that will be used for the Eglinton line. "

Which would make sense to retrofit the Bellamy yard.... can't think of many places to build a new yard on eglinton, aside from the flats at Jane or in the Don valley, both are probably to rugged terrain wise to create a yard and the flats are known flood plain.

What's wrong with the Black Creek Yard that they are already planning?

 

[spaced]

Premier Dalton McGuinty said the Eglinton LRT, which will run continuously onto the Scarborough RT tracks, is the biggest public transit investment in Ontario history. (the star)

If this is correct they will have to change the LRT order into something that is powered by the rails. Unless they retrofit the RT to overhead wires (including rebuilding parts of the station). But if they go with rail-powered the burrowers don't need to be oversized as the ones ordered; also the west side will not be able to extend as a surface LRT (unless completely separated and fenced off like subways).
I'm not critiquing the project, I'm just curious on which way they will go. I would have to guess that the cost will be the deciding factor as I'm a bit skeptical of the price for suck a big project.

 

[Rainforest]

If this is correct they will have to change the LRT order into something that is powered by the rails. Unless they retrofit the RT to overhead wires (including rebuilding parts of the station). But if they go with rail-powered the burrowers don't need to be oversized as the ones ordered; also the west side will not be able to extend as a surface LRT (unless completely separated and fenced off like subways).
I'm not critiquing the project, I'm just curious on which way they will go. I would have to guess that the cost will be the deciding factor as I'm a bit skeptical of the price for suck a big project.

Even if LRT rolling stock is not optimal for a fully grade-separate line, it would be too dangerous to change it and necessitate a tunnel redesign at this point. The further the project advances before the election, the less likely it is to be cancelled or scaled back.

 

[Rainforest]

They don't need Bellamy yard. The original plan was to close it and replace it with the new yard at Conlins Road and Sheppard. Now with that cancelled, they can instead use the new yard that will be used for the Eglinton line.

OK, they can; but is it a good idea to operate a 28-km line with just one yard? Especially, given the potential future extensions to Pearson and Malvern.

Retaining the Bellamy yard would make its operation more reliable.

 

[paraone]

it may also be cheaper to retrofit the Bellamy yard rather than build a new yard with the capacity for the entire line's stock.

 

[New_EastYork]

Not meaning any disrespect here but I really don't understand the mad rush to get Eglinton to STC as opposed to connecting it to Pearson? Given the number of people coming and going from Pearso (worker's and travelers) I would have anchored the west end of the Eglinton line there and taken it as far east as the available money would take it.

STC is a higher priority than an airport connectionfor a few reasons. the SRT line is an alignment that has been proven to generate high ridership. Also, Scarborough Centre is a designated urban growth centre in the Province's growth plan with high-densityzoning and a secondary plan to support it. Fianally, the approved airport rail link through Metrolinx adresses the need for an airport connection to a certain extent.

 

[Electrify]

Too true its too bad that order had been made otherwise we could be getting a crosstown HRT line, plus the STC would likely have been underground HRT as well...

Re the new SRT...is removing mccowan a big deal? In all of the time ive taken the SRT to STC (many many many times), ive never seen anyone go there. To be honest im not realy even sure why it was there in the first place unless it was to connect to the telus/office buildings at consilium.

Your assumption is probably correct. The entire project was built as a "downtown Scarborough" with offices, condos, and the mall to be connected by rapid transit. As we all know, this early experiment in modern transit oriented development didn't work out quite too well...

 

[New_EastYork]

Don't underestimate Ford's election to the psyche of both the federal and provincial Tories.. They finally see they stand a chance at being elected within the city that has shut them out for decades.

We might see a slew of lovely funding announcements because they're hungry for vote-rich Toronto. I think all of you remember the recent article in the Globe and Mail showing that Hudak's support is quite high in North York and Scarborough. That's where he stands a chance to gain 416 votes. The Sheppard subway is basically a subway for those two boroughs, he will probably offer to fund part of the extension. What happens to Eglinton remains to be seen, but I don't think it will get cut this time around.

This is so true. Having a conservative-leaning municipal government surely has a protective factor for Toronto. A lot of the non-support for Transit in Toronto in the late 90's was due to a perception that Toronto was not a determinant of success for their government. They knew Toronto could not be counted on for the coservative vote, which for whatever reason is a very different situation today.

 

[SP!RE]

Forgive my ignorance, but...

1) So now the Bloor line technically ends at Kennedy, and the east end of the Eglinton line replaces the SRT?

2) Will the LRT that runs into Scarborough be up on the elevated SRT tracks? Or underground? And if not on the SRT tracks, then what will be done with those elevated sections?

 

[syn]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but this seems to be nothing more than a drastically reduced version of Transit City that allows the province to spend less.

Not sure why they just don't go for a full subway under Eglinton.

 

[New_EastYork]

Forgive my ignorance, but...

1) So now the Bloor line technically ends at Kennedy, and the east end of the Eglinton line replaces the SRT?

2) Will the LRT that runs into Scarborough be up on the elevated SRT tracks? Or underground? And if not on the SRT tracks, then what will be done with those elevated sections?

The Bloor subway line will end at Kennedy station. The LRT on Eglinton will use the same route as the current SRT alignment making use of the existing elevated guideway, but replacing
the ICTS (current) trains with LRT technology.

 

[nfitz]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but this seems to be nothing more than a drastically reduced version of Transit City that allows the province to spend less.

But it doesn't cost less. Now it costs the same as the original longer Eglinton RT project and the now cancelled Finch West LRT, Sheppard East LRT, and the SRT extension from McCowan to Sheppard.

Not sure why they just don't go for a full subway under Eglinton.

The primary reason is that the projected demand is much lower than what a full subway carries. Also the cost for full subway would be more expensive yet again.