Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[Haydenpoon]

Aggressive would be putting it lightly. How many busses run that Finch-Steeles gauntlet? TTC has 53 and 60, but YRT also has: 88, 23, 5, 77, 99, 2, 91, 300, 303, Blue, and Pink. Signal priority won't cut it.

That's only during COVID, normally there are YRT 2, 5, 23, 88, 77, 91/91A, 99/98E, 300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 760, Blue/BlueA, Pink, and TTC 42, 53/953, 60/960, 97F, 125.

(x) = buses per hour pre-COVID
VIVA Blue/BlueA (12) + VIVA Pink (5) + TTC 953 (9) + TTC 960 (7) = 33 buses per hour, already over the optimum number of buses per hour (22-23) to allow for signal prioity.

Adding all the routes will get more than 90 buses during rush hour.

 

[anb]

Honestly there should’ve been a push for metrolinx to get 2 way all day go train service to and from richmond hill. This would’ve at least relieved some portions of the yonge line as of now. Do people actually know that they can just take langstaff go to union in the AM peak or do they take viva to finch and then yonge to union?

 

[Haydenpoon]

Honestly there should’ve been a push for metrolinx to get 2 way all day go train service to and from richmond hill. This would’ve at least relieved some portions of the yonge line as of now. Do people actually know that they can just take langstaff go to union in the AM peak or do they take viva to finch and then yonge to union?

The subway is more direct for any destinations outside Union, north of Dundas, and it's cheaper to take the subway.

4.89k take the Richmond Hill GO Line at or north of Langstaff.

 

[anb]

The subway is more direct for any destinations outside Union, north of Dundas, and it's cheaper to take the subway.

4.89k take the Richmond Hill GO Line at or north of Langstaff.

Yeah I know but at least for the situation right now something could’ve been done to relief the yonge line with the resources we have

 

[Rainforest]

Would the TTC Steeles buses and other non-Yonge YRT buses have used the bus lanes to get to Finch instead of general traffic lanes?

The TTC Steeles buses already use the curbside HOW lanes on Yonge, and so do the VIVA and YRT buses once they cross Steeles.

Those lanes aren't terribly fast, and a bus serving a stop often blocks an express or a VIVA bus. Still, those lanes are handy when the general lanes are jammed with traffic.

 

[micheal_can]

The TTC Steeles buses already use the curbside HOW lanes on Yonge, and so do the VIVA and YRT buses once they cross Steeles.

Those lanes aren't terribly fast, and a bus serving a stop often blocks an express or a VIVA bus. Still, those lanes are handy when the general lanes are jammed with traffic.

Too bad there was no way to have a bump out for the bus stops so that they can pull out of the lane.

 

[Allandale25]

Soil testing.

Growing Up In Thornhill : Preliminary testing of the soil and underground conditions of Yonge Street (between Centre and Royal Orchard) in preparation for the coming TTC subway extension north of Steeles.

Preliminary testing of the soil and underground conditions of Yonge Street (between Centre and Royal Orchard) in preparation for the coming TTC subway extension north of Steeles.

facebook.com

 

[robmausser]

The subway is more direct for any destinations outside Union, north of Dundas, and it's cheaper to take the subway.

4.89k take the Richmond Hill GO Line at or north of Langstaff.

This is such circular logic it kills me everytime I see it.

Argument: Transit system with low frequency has low ridership. Thus we shouldnt increase frequency.

NO, transit system has low ridership BECAUSE of low frequency.

Never look at existing ridership to determine whether a line needs upgrading, you look at other things like the potentials for increasing frequency vs capital cost, the potential for ridership from station areas etc.

 

[Rainforest]

Too bad there was no way to have a bump out for the bus stops so that they can pull out of the lane.

Maybe, but bus bump outs would make the street even wider.

Yonge is 7-lanes already in that section, 3 + 3 + central lane. 7-lanes and 6-lanes streets normally don't have bus bump outs.

 

[Rainforest]

This is such circular logic it kills me everytime I see it.

Argument: Transit system with low frequency has low ridership. Thus we shouldnt increase frequency.

NO, transit system has low ridership BECAUSE of low frequency.

Never look at existing ridership to determine whether a line needs upgrading, you look at other things like the potentials for increasing frequency vs capital cost, the potential for ridership from station areas etc.

Ridership is a function of both the frequency and the route relevance. For sure, improving the frequency will invite more ridership, but at some point the ridership will reach its ceiling, and further frequency increase will not make up for the route's poor downtown connectivity.

Regarding the RH line, IMO the frequency should be increased to the point attainable without massive, costly tunneling. But we shouldn't pretend that the resulting ridership increase will make the Yonge North subway and / or the Relief Line redundant.

 

[Haydenpoon]

Honestly there should’ve been a push for metrolinx to get 2 way all day go train service to and from richmond hill. This would’ve at least relieved some portions of the yonge line as of now. Do people actually know that they can just take langstaff go to union in the AM peak or do they take viva to finch and then yonge to union?

The subway is more direct for any destinations outside Union, north of Dundas, and it's cheaper to take the subway.

4.89k take the Richmond Hill GO Line at or north of Langstaff.

This is such circular logic it kills me everytime I see it.

Argument: Transit system with low frequency has low ridership. Thus we shouldnt increase frequency.

NO, transit system has low ridership BECAUSE of low frequency.

Never look at existing ridership to determine whether a line needs upgrading, you look at other things like the potentials for increasing frequency vs capital cost, the potential for ridership from station areas etc.

I don't see anywhere in my statement that "low frequency has low ridership". 4.89k is a very high ridership considering that there are only 5 trains per day on Richmond Hill Go Line.
Facts ≠ Argument

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

It's almost hilarious. I haven't watched this thread for a bit but I come back and it's 2009 (and 10 and 11 and 12-19) all over again:
-Other projects should go first!
-This shouldn't be built at all!
-It should only go to Steeles!
-Highway 7 is just a political decision anyway!
-It should be something other than a subway!
-What we really should do is improve GO service!

None of this matters anymore. All these ships have long since sailed. It's a provincial and regional priority. It's a real project, really moving forward. There's a 0% chance it will end at Steeles or be replaced by improved GO, which serves a 100% different ridership group anyway.
It's being done in concert with the Ontario Line which, not all shockingly, got delayed this week (delayed, if you believed 2027 in the first place).

As to whether the line "can" or "should" be built without the DRL going to Sheppard... firstly, all this COVID stuff is opening capacity. But more to the point, when is the last time any government around here made any kind of rational transit decision based on this sort of data? Maybe that this is entirely correct - but that ship has sailed too. The Province and the City have an agreement - which can change, sure. But for now, there's a contract.

It's not just that Markham or York Region "want it." It is a matter of Provincial Policy (and has been for years now), that Highway 7 is one of the major growth centres in the GTA. Development HAS to go there (and the first development there has now been approved, BTW). The subway HAS to go there. Just accept it, already.

I don't know precisely how COVID will affect the details of any of this - that's the one caveat, though so far nothing has changed - or if the YNSE schedule will slide, to the extent it's tied to Ontario Line, but there's really no point having the 50th round of discussions based on coulda/woulda/shoulda, is there? Shouldn't we just talk about what IS already?

 

[WislaHD]

I am confused, are you for or against it going to Highway 7?

It should go to Steeles at a bare minimum, and I am more than okay with it going to Highway 7 for all the reasons TJ O'Pootertoot said.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Just moved this P.S. to a new post

Stand and watch the bus traffic along Yonge St. south of Steeles in morning rush hour and get back to me. You'll probably have a different opinion.

I have been at that intersection and literally been able to do a 360 and count 15-20 buses within sight You'd be hard-pressed, at any time during the day, to do your own 360 and not spot 5 or 6, at a minimum, (Just for fun, I went on Google Streetview just now and spun around - a picture taken some time in April 2019 - and counted at least 7 or 8. Just some context, folks. Try it yourself!)
A mixture of GO, TTC, YRT/Viva. I don't think people understand the density of transit flow (or how bad the right lane of Yonge is, as a result).

Oh, and one more thing you can see on Streetview, along Steeles: bikes like this - at racks and chained to random poles and trees- so York Region TTC riders can avoid paying a double fare. Extending to Steeles will substantially worsen this issue.

View attachment 249769

View attachment 249770

 

[anb]

Just moved this P.S. to a new post



I have been at that intersection and literally been able to do a 360 and count 15-20 buses within sight You'd be hard-pressed, at any time during the day, to do your own 360 and not spot 5 or 6, at a minimum, (Just for fun, I went on Google Streetview just now and spun around - a picture taken some time in April 2019 - and counted at least 7 or 8. Just some context, folks. Try it yourself!)
A mixture of GO, TTC, YRT/Viva. I don't think people understand the density of transit flow (or how bad the right lane of Yonge is, as a result).

Oh, and one more thing you can see on Streetview, along Steeles: bikes like this - at racks and chained to random poles and trees- so York Region TTC riders can avoid paying a double fare. Extending to Steeles will substantially worsen this issue.

View attachment 249769

View attachment 249770

That’s actually creativity to a whole new level. It’s obviously not original sure but some people actually take advantage of adding a bike to their commute to make things easier